Professions

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Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:20 am

An example of Profession Points in action, it might make the idea a little less confusing;
You require a minimum of level 20 to gain a PP and there are three types; Warrior, Archer and Magician. I'm going to use Melee as an example.

At level 20 and 21 Attack I receive my first and second Warrior-PP. Should my Strength level overtake and reach 22 first, I will receive my third Warrior-PP from Strength. It's whichever gets there first. Even if I raise my Attack to 22 I've already got the Warrior-PP from Strength. I now have 50 Warrior-PP and have been purchasing my way down the Guard Profession, with one or two of the earlier upgrades in the other professions (but I don't plan to go much further). I get bored of being a Guard, and pay to have all by Warrior-PP returned to the bin and I decided to spend them (instead) on the Berserker Profession. You can only do this once a day (or just less, similar to staffs).

I am not limited to my profession, but changing it is costly. Not training a profession doesn't affect my ability from the before the upgrade, it only adds a more interesting way to customise my character than, say, wearing a different set of armour. The closest thing I can think of is the Family Crest Gauntlets - you get one for free, and have to pay 30k to upgrade! Back in my day it was only 20k, they've raised the price (unless this is built in, the more times you change, the more it costs each time [which is actually a good idea, lol]. Prayer Books are similar, although you get one for free and have to pay a bundle to unlock the ability to buy the others - so it's not quite the same. Tongue
"Professions" use a talent/skill tree like system used by many MMOs. Each class has three Professions that you can master, or you can get half-way to mastering all three - although it's better to choose one. Unlike some games where an upgrade is active from the moment you've purchases it, in RuneScape a player may only have an amount of unlocks active at once. The first game that came to mind was Bioshock. If I recall, in Bioshock you can only have 5 of your power-ups active at once but they stack with other active power-ups (so you could have 2x "2x Damage Multipliers" active at once). For Professions there would be a second body-panel like interface where you can select/change any active unlocks (this interface can be accessed from banks/specific locations). The Profession Trees and purchasing upgrades is handled by the Tutors in Lumbridge.

Profession Trees only control what unlocks you can purchase at any particular level - also, the amount of points required for the high-end unlocks in one profession means you cannot unlock the high-end unlocks in another. So you cannot have the ability to wield two-handed weapons with one hand (a possible Berserker Upgrade) with 0.5x Damage Multiplier (a possible Guard upgrade). Some upgrades won't be that useful, but are required to get higher up in the Profession ladder. Some unlocks would grey-out other unlock-zones (like a two-handed weapon and the shield zone). Tongue

This is all in aid of adding variety, so two players with the same get-up and levels aren't necessarily going behave the same.

• Archer Professions - Arbalest, Hunter and Marksman.
• Magician Professions - Archmage, Elemental/Arcanist and Warlock.
• Warrior Professions - Berserker, Guard and Swordsman.

Arbalests work with Crossbows. This chain focuses more on the Crossbow as a weapon - as well as the general Ranged class. Hunters have no specific weapon. This chain focuses more on the accuracy of Ranged - it also has effects which reduces the players "aggro". Marksman work primarily with bows. This chain focuses mainly on bows - increasing their accuracy, power - as well as general aspects of Ranged.

Archmages focus more on power, sacrificing upgrades in speed and accuracy. This chain, therefore, focuses on the general effectiveness of spells. Elementals wield the elements better than other Magicians - power, speed and accuracy. This chain focuses on the basic Wind, Water, Earth and Fire elements. Warlocks are based on the "tank" tactic - upgrades which increase the players "aggro", and higher defence upgrades than an Archmage or Elemental. However, unlike the melee tank, the offensive upgrades of a Warlock are generalised - fairly utilising all aspects (accuracy, speed, damage, etc - not all in the same upgrade, mind).

Unique to Magic, whilst utilising the Ancient Spellbook, the Elemental Profession is replaced with the Arcanist Profession. They are connected - so upgrading one will upgrade the other. Most upgrades are similar, but some aren't.

Berserkers focus on strength and blunt weapons. A higher-levelled upgrade (beyond the point of mixing professions) could be one-handed wielding of two-handed weapons. Guards are heavily based on the "tank" tactic - artificially high "aggro", increased strength and defence, but quite often have accuracy penalties. Swordsmen are skilled with blades and polearms. This chain focuses on general speed and accuracy, but includes (more than other chains) "attack techniques" - such as stunning and, a higher-levelled upgrade, injuring (where the foe would lose weapon-wielding abilities).

————————————

Profession Points, or PP, are gained as you level. Archer, Magician and Warrior PP are independant of each other – as Jublex is promoting "unlocked" classes, despite adopting a "single class" system.

Using Warriors as an example, though it would be the same for Magicians and Archers – you gain your first Warrior-PP at level 20 Attack or Strength (whichever reaches level 20 first). You will gain an additional point with each level (again, whichever reaches the level first) – meaning a total of 79 Warrior-PP.

An upgrade can cost anywhere between 1 and 5 (this isn't determined by how far in the chain it is). You can spend PP on an upgrade even if you don't have enough PP, but it will not be unlocked until you have deposited the full amount of PP (so 3/5 PP, for example). Upgrades use a branch system. After unlocking an upgrade, you may choose to unlearn for free within the first 24 hours – in the first month of release, this time could be made infinite. Tutors can recall all PP (in their class) for a hefty fee (depending on how much they need to unteach you) - this allows you to completely redo your choices. However, aside from the first 24 hours, there is no way to unlearn specific upgrades (excluding the get-used-to-it period).

To complete a Profession you require *exactly* 60 PP - this means you have 19 PP spare to spend in the other two professions. However, you could share the 79 PP out evenly, should you wish, but this limits you to low levelled upgrades.

Remember, each class has independent profession points – so that's 79 Archer-PP, 79 Magician-PP and 79 Warrior-PP in total!


Last edited by 3mptylord on Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:07 am; edited 10 times in total

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:31 am

No! Just NO! This is an affront to one of the most basic concepts of runescape! I am ashamed to hear this from you! I despise the concept of PP's (or at least a limited amount of PP's) Because the nice thing about runescape is that if you level attack to 99 that doesn't mean that strength is locked in lower due to a lack of points!
This could be fixed by having say...insane quests or crazy hard dungeons...that could award you over the max of 79...


Last edited by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:32 am

Say what? You've completely misunderstood.

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:34 am

How? I know exactly what you're saying!

Edit: I know this wouldn't apply to attack and str, it's and example albeit a bad one


Last edited by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:35 am

At no point did I say that training Attack would limit your Strength.

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:37 am

As i said I know that's a bad example...I just am saying that that is a basic principle...if you train ranging it doesn't limit you from training magic due to a lack of points, but here if you train archmage you are limited in training warlock/elemental due to a lack of points
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:39 am

At no point did I say that Professions would affect the current gameplay, either.

And: "Remember, each class has independent profession points – so that's 79 Archer-PP, 79 Magician-PP and 79 Warrior-PP in total!" At no point did I say that having a Melee profession would hinder your ability in Magic or Ranged. I say again, you've completely misread it.

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:41 am

At no point did i say that either! What I am saying is that a principle of runescape is that mage doesn't hinder melee doesn't hinder range etc.

why should it be then that within the classes various proffesions would hinder other proffessions
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:43 am

Having a profession only limits your ability to access other professions in the same class. Being a Berserk means you cannot be a Tank. However, this does not affect the default gameplay, so no-one loses out. Professions only allow variety to players.


At the moment players are clones... the only thing that can change this is locked/semi-locked choices. If you could easily switch between Professions then the whole point of it (adding variety) is removed, as again there is nothing making you different from the next person.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:45 am

Exactly! Why should they though! that goes against runescape principle!
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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:46 am

I would be fine if you could reset them somehow and therefore only be able to have one completed proffesion per class at any time...but that seems iffy
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:47 am

No it doesn't. RuneScape has no principle that this can relate to. The closest thing is jewellery... you can only wear one at once. Or possibly prayer, where you can have prayers active in each class - although prayer doesn't have variety in one class. There aren't Magic-Accuracy, Magic-Speed, Magic-Power and Magic-Defence prayers where using one hinders the other... you just have Magic.

You can have one profession in each class at a time. I can be an Arbolest, Warlock and Guard at the same time. However, I cannot be a Berserk and a Guard at the same time.

There's;
• Magic
• Melee
• Ranged

These are no different to their ingame ability (aside from any other changes that are added to combat in general, such as separate magic-attack and magic-strength skills). Players can choose to upgrade each class in one of three directions - choosing one profession doesn't hinder your ability to use other aspects of the class. Choosing to become a Berserker does stop me from using "Guard"-like weapons, it just means I can't purchase as many unlocks in the Guard Profession.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:55 am

Wait, what? But you can then switch on another prayer!

from what your saying there'd be absolutely no way to switch out different proffesions...

How exactly would the game mechanics of this work, would you be able to freely shift points around? If so then I am fine with it.

What it seems like to me though is like if you chose berserker then for melee you constantly are wearing an unremovable str ammy. but you can't just switch into accuracy or defence ammy.
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 7:58 am

Aye, it's like a permanent Strength Amulet. But it doesn't make your Attack or Defence any weaker. Professions are power-ups... if you can power-up every aspect in combat then you might as well not bother with professions at all. I've specified that you may unlearn updates for free within 24 hours, and for the first month players can unlearn for free unlimitedly so that they can get used to it. After that, the only way to unlearn is to pay specific NPCs. It's like choosing to be a man or women. Okay, that's a bad example.

What is the point of this if it's just like wearing jewellery? We're trying to obtain uniqueness, variety and individuality to players... if I can fight one battle as a Guard then switch to Berserk there's none of that.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 7:59 am

I re-read the last bit and that is exactly what i object to! In no other part of runescape are their set in stone branching trees where yuocan't decide to go back
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:01 am

Quests. In the Temple of Ikov you can choose to help the Guardians or choose to help Lucein. Ignoring the events of While Guthix Sleeps, this decision permanently affects your character, and there is no going back.

Players do not lose any existing capabilities. I really must stress this. A player with 99 Attack and Strength before this update will notice no difference, at all. All professions do is allow players to customise their character - powering up certain aspects, requiring them to make a choice. It's not permanent, but unlearning can be costly especially after a while.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 8:03 am

Oooh...I either can talk to them or I can fight them to get pendant...big whoop
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:08 am

I don't see what you object to, exactly. The idea that a player has to actually choose an aspect of themselves? It's like in Fable 2, your actions have rewards and consequences... and in most cases, you cannot rectify damage. Such as... the Defender of Light quest. You do not need to complete this quest, however, should you return from a main section of the story having not completed it, the Temple has been destroyed due to your lack of defending. Requiring players to make choices improves the game. I'm by no means trying to make these changes permanent. It's like training a pure on top of you main character. Honing your skills doesn't affect the main character, but it improves those aspects.

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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:10 am

The only way that the ability to change your profession freely, which would completely negate what professions are trying to achieve, would be to make professions only accessible when you receive a point. That way, you can choose whatever you want, but you're stuck with it until you next level-up.

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 8:21 am

No!
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:25 am

So what exactly is the point? Armour you can change freely, weapons you can change freely, etc... there would be no point to this as it wouldn't achieve anything. Most players would be happy for there to be some more individuality to players... but how exactly can this be obtained? With your views, it cannot.

How can you not support going into a fight and not knowing how the fight will go because they may have a unlocks selected you've never come up against. Whether you can change what profession you have or not makes no difference to the fact you are limited to a tree... if you want the top Guard Upgrade you cannot obtain the top Berserker Upgrade. This is to prevent overpowered players! You can change which unlocks you have active by going to the bank (preferably). You can purchase new upgrades at the tutors. Whether you can change which profession you have or not doesn't affect the system... you're still limited to one profession at a time, or weak shared-professions.

The whole concept of having to pay to unlearn is like selling your longsword to purchase a scimitar. Yes, rich people could just buy both, but I don't want worth to affect this. The fact of the matter is, you've bought one thing... if you want something else, you'll have to save up. You are limited to 79 free credits, and can only have 79 credits active at a time. You have to pay for any credits after that, and you will have to sacrifice one of your free ones. You don't have to pay to unlearn each individual unlock, you pay to have all your credits in one profession returned to the collection box for you to redistribute. I'm not suggesting that you'd have to pay to unlearn everything.

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If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Professions

Post by 3mptylord on Sat May 30, 2009 8:44 am

At level 20 you gain your first PP. I'm going to use Melee as an example.

At level 21 Attack I receive my second Warrior-PP. Should my Strength level overtake and reach 22 first, I will receive my third Warrior-PP from Strength. I now have 50 Warrior-PP and have been purchasing my way down the Guard Profession, with one or two of the earlier upgrades in the other professions (but I don't plan to go much further). I get bored of being a Guard, and pay to have all by Warrior-PP returned to the bin and I decided to spend them (instead) on the Berserker Profession. You can only do this once a day (or just less, similar to staffs).

I am not limited to my profession, but changing it is costly. Not training a profession doesn't affect my ability from the before the upgrade, it only adds a more interesting way to customise my character than, say, wearing a different set of armour. The closest thing I can think of is the Barrows' Set Effects, you can only have one active at a time and its costly to change which one you have active (although, with professions you can have multiple, though each is low levelled).

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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 10:09 am

That's a great idea...lol...I like the idea that you can pay to reset.

And the closest comparison is family crest gauntlets...
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Re: Professions

Post by TATORZ on Sat May 30, 2009 1:46 pm

What's wrong with that idea?

I like it all, but I'm too lazy to read on.
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Re: Professions

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat May 30, 2009 9:16 pm

What I object to is the fact that by upgrading one profession in a given class you are forever limiting the other two professions in that class. One thing I like about Runescape is that you can train all and any of the skills to 99 or any lvl. Here you can only max out one proffession per class, and at first 3mpty implied that any choices were permanent, that's what i don't like.
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