Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

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Upgrading tomes...?

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Total Votes : 5

Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:44 am

First topic message reminder :

Note on the poll. If each spell is upgraded individually, all would have to be available from the off-set - wouldn't they? Also, think of the price! Tongue

Tomes replace combat Magic, simple as! Smile

Tomes are wielded in the off-hand, so you only have access to one at once. Two handed-staffs would have a specific tome built in - even if it's just the 16 basic elemental spells. Ahrim's and Zurial's would have access to the Ancient Tome, or tomes depending on if each Ancient Element receives each own tome. Each tome has a specific "element" rune - so there would be some new element runes to accommodate. Ancient Magick's could have Shroud Runes, Frost Runes, etc- preferably new names for Blood and Smoke, so they don't mix up. Spells will no longer require Wind Runes like a base-ingredient - so air-combo staffs won't be overpowered. Wink

Available books;
Wind, Sea, Stone, Flame, Storm, Nature, Light, Dark, Smog, Frost, Shroud and Flesh?

Each book would have 13 spells - 5 basic, 5 medium, 2 high, and 1 master. Spellbooks require a level to first use, and all five basic spells are available at the level. However, you can purchase "lessons" in a specific tome to grade-up - such as a book of Flame [grade-1] to a book of Flame [grade-2]. Upgrading your tome unlocks new spells, as well as upgrading the existing ones. The actual Magic Tutor is our first Magic Tutor, and she can teach us the four basic elements up to grade-1 (only air is free, as it's obtained in the tutorial - but the prices for grade-1 aren't high). To continue upgrading you must find other tutors, and to purchase other books you must find a tutor who has mastered it!

For all but the Ancient Tomes, the five basic spells would be strike, bolt, blast, wave and (insert a good name for a defensive spell). Yes, this means Wind Wave is available at level 1, but it's not that great - book of Wind [grade-1] is weak in general! Book of Wind [grade-4] holds the equivalent Wind Wave power as the existing spell! The reason for this? Strike is an accurate spell, Bolt is a fast spell, Blast is a controlled spell and Wave is a powerful spell - like attack types for melee. Focus, Psych and Banish stats instead of Melee's Stab, Slash and Crush. Smile

EDIT: Spells would require "Combat Runes". Which rune is relative to the grade. Grade-1 requires Mind, Grade-2 requires Chaos, Grade-3 requires Death, Grade-4 requires Blood and Grade-5 requires... something. Wink

Like a Dagger has Stab (Stab, Accurate, Attack exp), Lunge (Stab, Aggressive, Strength exp) and so on... the book of Flame would have something like Fire Strike (Focus, Accurate, Magic exp), Fire Bolt (Psych, Aggressive, Mana exp). This is including the magic-attack and magic-strength idea, but it could all give Magic exp if needs be. A "battlestance" is the "accurate", or "aggressive" bit. Magic's battlestances are Accurate (magic exp), Aggressive (mana exp), Berserk (shared magic and mana exp), Controlled (shared exp), Defencive (defence exp), Rapid (magic and defence exp) and Longranged (mana and defence exp). Melee could have counterparts for Rapid and Longranged - gouge/gouging is something polearms do, this could be the equivalent of longranged. Yes - you can train defence-only with Magic! Most spells with "Defencive" as their battlestance will not inflict direct damage, and thus wouldn't have focus, psych or banish in brackets - however, this isn't a trend and some exceptions will probably arise. Wink

It's possible that the spellbook panel could display the standard layout - Strikes [grade-1], Bolts [grade-2], Blasts [grade-3] and Waves [grade-4] regardless of tome you wield, for those who don't like change. Or even, just 'cause I'm nice, Strike at your highest available grade; Bolt at your highest available grade, etc. So if you can cast Wind Blast - you will get bolt and strike [grade-3]. However, this would only be in the spellbook panel. For players to access Wind Strike [grade-3] in the tome, as well as other spells available at [grade-3] - you must purchase the upgrade from [grade-1] to [grade-3]! Grin

Book of Flame (I have not illustrated the specific spells, only where they would go);


Now we just need spells!
• Fire Strike (Focus, Accurate, Magic exp)
• Fire Bolt (Psych, Rapid, Magic and Defence exp)
• Fire Blast (Focus, Controlled, Shared exp)
• Fire Wave (Banish, Aggressive, Mana exp)
• Fire Shield? (Defensive, Defence exp)

Going from book of Flame [grade-1] to book of Flame [grade-2] is like going from a Bronze Dagger to an Iron Dagger. Only difference, tomes have less grades (so larger increases in power). There are also fewer weapons - Wind, Sea, Stone, etc will total with less weapons than melee. However, Magic has more "attack styles" within each weapon - melee has a maximum of 4 per weapon, magic has 13 each. Melee can poison weapons generically, Magic can only poison with specific attack styles... yadda, yadda, etc. Wink

How the widget works;

The widgets rests to the right of the interface or left of the game-screen - depending on which is true. It is only visible when you are wielding a tome, and is closed unless being accessed - so has not to spam the screen. The orbs are coloured to match the element, as well as the symbol changing appropriately. When closed, the orb will display the spell you wish to auto-cast. To access the widget you simply need to right-click on it and it'll expand to reveal a "dock" with all the spells (unavailable spells will be greyed out). The dock zooms in on the closest spell to the cursor - I've tried to show an example of the zooming feature. Left-clicking on the widget will turn off auto-casting, and again to turn on - as wielding a tome will allow you to auto-cast magic without a staff (but you can turn this off, for players who don't want to auto cast and just want to hold the book)! The spell you select from the dock will be displayed in the orb shown when the dock is hidden. This will be the spell your character will try to cast when in combat - unless they are out of runes, or you select another spell from the spellbook panel (you will be able to access to tome from the spellbook panel whether the above idea for the spellbook panel is incorporated or not).

Spells have a charge time rather than a cast-speed - this is to prevent you from click-casting it repeatedly (which would be overpowered considering the potential some spells could have). You can see the recharge time of the default spell as there would be a visible display of the spell charging (such as it being greyed out and being un-greyed via a clock-hand style timer). Some spells have an instant charge, some have an almost unnoticable charge, whilst other you will find that you're auto-casting at a relatively slow speed. Casting another spell will not affect active timers. Switching tomes will trigger the timer on all but the five basic spells - the time when switching books is double the length, to limit book-hybriding. Tongue

This is completely spat out - it's unordered and messy, but I hope it's understandable! Grin


Last edited by 3mptylord on Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:02 am; edited 7 times in total

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:53 am

What?! How the hell are you categorizing this? Confuse

A minion is a companion - a companion is anything which provides company. A minion does imply a more... slave and master type relationship, but by your definition a manifestation would be a minion. It exists only to do your bidding. Summoning would remain unique for being a skill for useless followers - both the pets and the familiars.

Terminology - Minions and Followers, both are companions. A minion exists to serve (in the whole - you are my companion, I am your master kind of way), whilst a follower exists to accompany (in the willingly-loyal companion kind of way). To save confusion?

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:08 am

Magic has spells why should it have companions

and I object to the categorization of familiars as useless...I use them for a large variety of activities
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:12 am

I mean useless in combat - the skill is a combat skill, this is why they are useless. You deem them useful for effects that were previously only obtainable to Magic. Also, manifests would be spells... they just retain a form. You support Conjuring, it's the same basic concept.

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:23 am

They aren't useful for combat? THEY AREN'T USEFUL FOR COMBAT???

You aren't ranked meaning you have less than 30 summoning, I am and have 59 they do become useful for combat...

Are you saying that at lvl thirty and under familiars should already be useful to people of your combat level

Do you find mithril swords useful? Do you find wind bolt useful? Likely not, neither do I and we're within the same range...

But I do find spirit terrorbird useful in combat...and I find Karamthulhu Overlords very useful in combat...haven't tested with the big cats but I'm sure they are too...
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:43 am

I'm sorry, but I don't consider multi-combat minigames and PVP worthy of calling them useful. The odd location for PVE doesn't exactly boast usefulness. And I don't mean affects that increases your skills... I mean bog standard raw combat power. Now, I don't expect a mithril sword to be good, but at the level require to use a mithril sword it was. In Zoanthropy a beast is relative to your skills, the Zoanthropy level only affects the form you can become (and therefore it's stats the abilities that form has) - otherwise, you can carry on using the lower-levelled forms, should you want. In Word of Warcraft, as a Warlock you can summon minions - they have your exact combat level, the only reason to get other forms it their abilities and combat stats (the same as why a player would migrate from a shortsword to a longsword). Summoning in RuneScape is very futile... it seems to be designed around not giving players any form of advantage as if the advantage would be unfair. But it's not... all players have the right and ability to train Summoning, if they don't, that is their loss and not the other players advantage. But that is besides the point - you are clearly fond of Summoning, and I can't be bothered to have another argument with you because you seem unable to tolerate other peoples opinions.

I don't mean this to be mean, but everytime I've had an opinion that you don't agree with you shoot me down as if your opinion is more correct than mine. In circumstances where it's just misinterpretation of facts, that's different...

It's also besides the point because we're discussing Magic. You seem to be hypocritcal because you would allow Necromancy and Demonology to undermine Summoning, but not Magic... despite Magic being the weakest of them. A manifestation is just a self-casting spell, in effect... it works in single-combat but all players have access to Magic so it's not unfair, it they choose not to use their manigest, that's their problem. A manifest also shares some abilities as the familiar in Arcanists - and ability toward the tome. Of course, instead of health a manifest could cost A LOT of runes.

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Ruy112 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:19 am

I've used the Smoke Devil for combat twice. Both for boss fights and I must admit that it is useful. They can take focus of the monster and deal a little damage, however those are the only two times I have ever used a familiar for combat.

Summoning is good, when you can use it, which sadly is very rare.
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:35 am

I'm not saying Summoning is a wash-out... but the "very rare" makes it worthless to your average Joe. I don't enjoy PVP, so for me, the whole skill is pointless for things that were already being achieved via Magic or Herblore (even if the effects weren't as useful, Magic and Herblore already covered teleports, raised stats, etc).

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Ruy112 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:47 am

I never use summoning apart fro Terrobird, which is obsolete now. I do have quite a few Bunyips and Fruit Bats in bank, but never used those.
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:05 am

I have a few for some occasions.
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:13 am

I use the SpiritWolf in the wilderness to scare revenants away... but that's about it.

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:14 am

Anyway - we neeeddddd spppeeeelllllllllssss!!!!

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:18 am

ERmm...
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:04 am

Hi, I jsut looked at you little widget idea which seems quite fine except...

I play in the low detail or the old view high detail modes...that means sthat everything is isolated in it's own little box because one thing that really annoys me about fullscreen is the way that the menu interfaces overlap the playing screen and you can't click behind them

So where would the widget appear on my screen?

I'm not saying I dislike the idea of a widget (actually it's brilliant) I'm just wondering
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:10 am

It would sit in the corner of the game screen. As it's opened by right-click, left-clicking in its general area would have no effect.

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:03 am

I like widgets.
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:11 am

Book of Flame :: Fire Runes

Spell
Description
Unlocked
Charge
Offence stat
Battlestance
Experience
01
Fire Strike
An accurate fire missile.
Grade 1-
Focus
Accurate
Magic exp
02
Fire Bolt
A speedy fire missile.
Grade 1-
Psych
Rapid
Magic and Defence exp
03
Fire Blast
A controlled fire missile.
Grade 1-
Focus
Controlled
Shared exp
04
Fire Wave
A powerful fire missile.
Grade 1-
Banish
Aggressive
Mana exp
05
Fire Shield
An aura of fiery magic.
- Actively decreases Melee and Magic damage you take.
Grade 1
Yes
-
Defensive
Defence exp
06
3rd Degree
A fiery curse.
- Causes small damage, and will inflict "burn" upon the target.
Grade 2
Yes
Psych
Accurate
Magic exp
07
Fire Arrows
An accurate fire missile.
Grade 3
-
Psych
Longranged
Mana and Defence exp
08
Napalm
A powerful torrent of fire.
Grade 3-
Focus
Rapid
Magic and Defence exp
09
Fireflies
A swarm of fiery sprites.
- A swarm of fiery sprites will appear and attack the target over a period of time.
Grade 3Yes
-
Controlled
Shared exp
10
Magma Bomb
A powerful fire bomb.
Grade 3Yes
Banish
Aggressive
Mana exp
11
Reign of Fire
An arena of fiery magic.
- Actively increases fire-damage you inflict, and increases the effect of an active Flame Shield.
Grade 3Yes
Banish
Berserk
Magic and Mana exp
12
SupernovaA powerful blast of fire.Grade 4
YesBanishAggressive Mana exp
13
Fire Avatar
An avatar of Fire.
- A powerful minion of the Flame.
- Will aid in combat (including single combat), using the
- 50% of the damage you receive is instead inflicted to the Fire Avatar.
- If Reign of Fire is active when manifested, the avatar will only take half the damage it spares you.
- Whilst present, you may only cast spells 1-4.
Grade 5
Yes
-
Controlled
Shared exp

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:49 am

Nice! Grin
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:56 am

ok no issues here
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:12 am

Ooops... I think I did something to the poll when I tried to vote Neutral
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:13 am

You did? Confuse

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:08 am

I think I locked it or something Neutral
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:16 am

Silly mod! I shall check, lol. Tongue

Someone create the another tome! Grin

Aye, you closed the poll. Reopened now. Smile

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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:46 am

Grin

Erm... is there a weather tome? Tongue

Dang, there's a storm one... err...


How about a skill based one? One that ups your non-combat abilities?
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:56 am

I dunno... Confuse

It's possible there could be a tome specifically for skilling... but the point of the tome is that it's a weapon. A skilling-based tome could easily just be an additional spellbook, expansion to a spellbook, or a... subspellbook lol. *remembers his subspellbook suggestion and realises similarities between it and tomes*. Okay! We have the element-based, combat tomes - and then there can be miscellaneous tomes for other uses (combat or otherwise).

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If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:19 am

By spell, eh? I better did out the old price table (although it only included wind, sea, stone and flame). Tongue

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If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

Post by TATORZ on Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:13 am

I like it better upgrading by spell... like a dagger has about the same stats (percent wise) no matter how good it gets... So we should be able to update spells to have specifically better one bonus... thingy? Neutral

Plus, it would be cheaper than updating a whole book.
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Re: Tomes (aka, elemental spellbooks)

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