RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

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RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:13 am

First topic message reminder :

The old thread from the forums! Wink

Pleased RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!
Spoiler:
Welcome to the central hub of magical ideas, mine and yours (alike)! Magic is my favourite class within RuneScape; I just wish that it'd work better! Over the past two years I've probably written at least a dozen ideas for the glorious skill/class! So I decided to piece together a montage... filled with eleven ideas (at the moment), ten my own, and one of yours! But I hope to expand and include a few more of your ideas!

So, if you have any particularly good Magic ideas, either on the forums or in your brain, please mention them and I'll may add a summary of your idea to this thread (I've left room for expansion).

Otherwise, please just copy the answer sheet (before reading) and get reading! Then all you need to do is paste it into your reply and comment where you see appropriate. Please be constructive whether you agree or not; feedback gives me something to work on. Many of the ideas are quite radical, but they are all sound! However, if you'd prefer for Magic to remain mostly unchanged in terms of spells, robes, etc, then there are still ideas for you!

Please answer with either; Agreed, Disagreed, Undecided.
• Two skills?
• Conjuring skill?
• New power skills?
• New stat system?
• Freecasting?
• Spell launchers?
• Gemstone Robes?
• Mini-Spellbooks?
• Spell Scrolls?
• Gabill50's Mana skill?
• Psyche energy?

I authored all ideas aside from those specified otherwise. However, Dark War 123 contributed a large amount towards at least half of my ideas.
Pleased Incomplete Theology!
Spoiler:
Many would agree that Runecraft is a production skill. But others, me included, reckon that it's a resource-gathering skill. You harvest the magic released from altars with essence; creating runes. The energy within runestones can be used raw, which is why it’s often considered a production skill. But it's like throwing logs or bars, or hitting people with 'em. They’re not manufactured. We're missing a skill here; more in paragraph three.

The Magic skill is divided into two distinct themes; manipulation and conjuration. Manipulation is mostly non-combat (alchemy, enchantment, teleports), but includes curses and binds. Anything which manipulates an object or person; whether relocating it, enchanting it, or immobilising it. I propose that this skill be separated from the conjuration magic. I propose the name; "Sorcery", but I'm open for ideas. Sorcery wouldn't affect the combat level, and doesn't favour any class – like Herblore. The other theme of magic, conjuration, would remain within under the name of Magic, or by the name Wizardry.

In Magic, whilst you could argue that you're manipulating energy, you're using the energy in a very basic form; simple projectiles. But this – relating to the first paragraph – is where a new skill could come in; one which allows you to shape the energy into shapes. Using lecterns, you can bend the energy into equipment. Predominantly taking the shape of melee weapons (includes armour), conjured equipment works scarcely different from spells. Though it may look like a sword, it isn't a melee weapon. Conjured equipment requires Magic to wield, inflicts magical damage and earns Magic exp.
Pleased More BANG for your buck!
Spoiler:
What does Melee have which Ranged and Magic do not? Hint: it's the most obvious dissimilarity. Strength! Melee has an independent skill to controls maximum damage! Whilst a Magic thread, I must be impartial, so I'm going to suggest two more skills! They would both function the same as Strength, each controlling a different class; "Mana" for Magic, and "Marksmanship" for Ranged (please feel free to suggest alternate names).

New attack styles and bonus statistics would accompany the update. Weapons would all have "Accurate", "Aggressive", "Controlled" and "Defencive" battlestances (meaning you could train your Defence-pure with a bow). Magic and Ranged would receive new attack styles, instead of Stab, Slash and Crush, Magic would have Focus, Psych and Banish, and Ranged would have Pierce, Splice and Impact. Darts would be better at "Pierce" than axes. "Farcast" and "Ranged" to match the Strength stat.

Offensive Stats
• Melee - Stab 0; Slash 0; Crush 0; Strength 0;
• Magic - Focus 0; Psych 0; Banish 0; Farcast 0;
• Range - Pierce 0; Splice 0; Impact 0; Ranged 0;

Defencive Stats
• Melee - Stab 0; Slash 0; Crush 0;
• Magic - Focus 0; Psych 0; Banish 0;
• Range - Pierce 0; Splice 0; Impact 0;

Other Stats
• Prayer 0; Summoning 0; Weight ??kg.

Melee armour: high melee and range defence, low magic defence, negative all but melee attack.
Magic armour: high magic and melee defence, low range defence, negative all but magic attack.
Range armour: high range and magic defence, low melee defence, negative all but range attack.

The defence in a class' weakness could be negative, but a negative offence kills hybrids sufficiently to leave it as "low".
Pleased BANG! BANG! You're dead!
Spoiler:
Still think projectiles are all Magic should have? Well, do not fret, I have ideas for you two!

Freecasting is a simple idea to make staffs more magical, and reduce cost. Each staff would be given a selection of free spells (depending on the type of spellbook it can autocast). These require levels to cast and earn experience, but have no rune-cost! However, they don't last infinately, as the orb atop the staff will slowly lose charge (special staffs, such as Zurial's and Ahrim's, do not have charges as they break by their own effects). Combination, battle and Mystic staffs all freecast; the better the staff, the more charges.

• Magic Strike, Bolt, Blast and Wave
• Arcane Rush, Burst, Blitz and Barrage
• Astral Spike, Surge, Storm and Cascade

Spell launchers are primitive firearms. No more deadly than crossbows – they catapult magical ammunition (which release the contained spell upon impact). Unlike staffs, spell launchers offer multipliers towards accuracy, speed, damage and the range of a spell, using basic principles like; speed loses accuracy and damage costs speed (eg. the "Needle Shot" fires fast but inaccurately, whilst the "Boomshot" fires slowly but powerfully). Launchers are made from Smithing, with a clockwork mechanism from Crafting. The ammunition is made by casting spells on a stack of "blanks" (small shards of essence). Each spell charges up to 15 blanks, effectively reducing the cost of combat magic by 1/15th! Ammunition has no requirement, like spell tablets, but the weapon has limitations (like bows).
Pleased Useful whatchamacallits!
Spoiler:
Coming soon...
The FairyDust Launcher, Gnomish MountedArm and Dwarven MultiCannon (and their sequels).
The Rune Pouch and belts!
Pleased Penny for your thoughts, a whole fortune for what you're using!
Spoiler:
Three independent ideas;

Magic needs a defence, and whilst my Conjuring idea a few posts up does have a few pieces for Defence, not all wizards like the melee-look. Some like robes! Wizard Cromperty has been busy mixing science with magic, and has invented the Magiscope. This Magiscope allows you to transfer the magical energy you get when enchanting gemstones, and coat robes with it; Sapphire Robes, Emerald Robes, etc. Better gemstones offer better bonus stats! The thread also improves the bonus stats on existing magical robes, on the bases that they are magical and not just bog standard fabric that a butter-knife can cut through.

Mini-spellbooks are held in the off-hand. These volumes, aside from a few bonus stats, offer the player a handful of extra spells - all of which require runes and a level to cast. The tomes are usually based around a specific theme, rather than a random assortment. Callum 2789 made a comparison to Arcanists, Jagex's popular multiplayer-strategy game on FunOrb. Obtained mainly from quests and monster drops, but there could be an incomplete book obtained from Treasure Trails that you can slowly fill with pages. To access; select an icon in the spellbooks panel when wielding a tome.

Spell Scrolls are unique spells stored within parchment; tear to release. They are tradeable when obtained from monster drops and treasure trails, but can also be obtained from quests. The come in two main categories; fun, and useful. Fun Scrolls include "Flaming Steps", which adds a small smoldering trail when you walk, and "Smokescreen". Useful effects are those whose effect would be overpowered with infinite access to; "Higher Alch", for example, or "Double EXP" effects. Useful Scrolls have a *high* value! Tongue
Pleased A mana-ificent new idea!
Spoiler:
Both ideas only aid combat spells.

Suggested by Gabill50;
"Mana" is a skill which allows you to cast spells without Runes. Gabill50 even found lore to support this! To cast a spell without runes you require both the Magic and Mana level (Mana shares the same required levels as Magic). If your Magic is too low, you cannot cast it anyway, and if your Mana is too low, you must use Runes. Mana drains like prayer - being decreased doesn't affect your usage - but it recovers by itself (like energy). Mana experience is earned as you cast combat spells.

Suggested by Psychoboy8;
Alternatively, Psyche energy? Like Running Energy, it's always there and not directly connected to any skill. Turning on Psyche allows you to cast spells without runes. All spells would be given a drain rate, similar to a prayer; 3% per cast, for example. Your Magic-Attack stat, or "Farcast" with the new bonus stat system, would control this drain rate (again, similar to Prayer). With a high bonus, weak spells could be cast nearly infinitely without hitting 0% Psyche, whilst fast-draining spells would be slightly slowed. Psyche recovers by itself, but at a speed slightly slower than energy. If your Psyche hits 0%, you cannot re-enable it until it's at a minimum of 50%.

Eating fresh fruit restores your Psyche energy, but as with hitpoints, the amount is low; Psyche Restore potions (regular and super) restores larger amounts. Carrying a basket of strawberries is no longer so useless! Psyche can be turned on from the settings panel, and via a bubble around the map. Possible new prayer; Rapid Recovery (2x restore rate of energy and psyche). Other items, such as jewellery, could be added.
*΄¨)
Έ.•΄Έ.•*΄¨)
(Έ.•΄ (Έ.•΄•.ΈΈ.•΄―`•._.•

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:28 am

We're talking about players though. This wouldn't really affect monsters at all.

It's not like you would be able to reduce massive amounts of damage, but it needs to do something. Maybe it can reduce damage by 1/10 per level, rounded up. So at the most, you could drop 10 damage off, but that's all luck, it's not going to reduce it by 10 every time.

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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:31 am

Ok...i like the idea...but don't affect monster hits...and don't...for gods sake don't show two hit splats
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:37 am

I understand where you're coming from, it would annoy me to have two different splats.
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:51 am

maybe ahve another little bubble by the minimap that flashes any defended damage
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:24 am

You realise that bosses don't have defence bonuses, don't you? If they did, you would never land an attack because the sheer negativeness would make any accuracy you have negative. To be honest, PvE combat is crap. A level 3 player can take on a swarm of level 3-11 goblins and survive for ages. In WoW, a level 3 finds it hard to kill multiple level 3s... which makes sense. Effectively, the aggressiveness formula is the same, double your level... this should be the point when you can take on multiple of that target. I was level 14 when I quit WoW the last time I tried to get hooked (I've tried three times so far, I don't see the appeal) - at that level I still couldn't take on multiple level 9s... they massacred me. I struggled to even kill level 12 melee-users (being a magic user, my melee defence is particularly high).

Anyway, with resilience, both you and the NPC get it... they may be negating a bit of your damage, but so are you. Tongue

――――――――――――――――
If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:42 am

But they have defence lvls...plus we're adventurers...not city slickers
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:43 pm

Jagex prolly has stats for all monsters, I'd bet they could figure something out.
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:11 am

Yeah...and of course they do...they have every Npc's profile stored on the servers...
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:22 am

Defence is about all an NPC has in terms of defence, unless it is suppose to have a specific weakness (monsters that can only be killed by stab have really high bonuses for everything else). *shrugs*

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:44 am

yeah but i think it works remarkably welll that way
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:26 am

Suuuuuure...
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:28 am

what's wrong with it...
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:29 am

*shrugs*
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:30 am

*lurks in a dark corner*
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:35 am

So I recently looked at some old attempts of mine to make a fantasy lore and I reworked some of it to create a four way split of magic...

Imbuing: This is basically Runecrafting & Enchant Spells & New Augment spells for mage armour/staffs

Changing: Alchemies, Teleports, and Most of Psycho's Sorcery

Conjuration/Summonation(both taken aaargh!): the ability to summon raw energies of magic...the magic strength skill

Casting/Manipulation: The attack skill

Spells could now be cast in two ways...which one you use is toggled at the top of the spellbook interface: Raw and Refined....raw trains Conjuration...refined trains manipulation
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by TATORZ on Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:15 am

4 different ways... Neutral
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:55 am

I dislike the current way PvE works because a level 60 Monster is no where near the same as a level 60 Player, so the use of "Level 60" is a very unfair comparison. I've said this before, but PvE between two combatants of the same level should be an even fight - this doesn't occur in RuneScape. A monster shouldn't be claimed as a level if it's nowhere near as strong as it.

Imbuing: This is basically Runecrafting & Enchant Spells & New Augment spells for mage armour/staffs

I dislike combining Runecraft with anything that doesn't resemble it in any way. Runecraft isn't adorning, enchanting, augments, none of it. Runecraft is a resource gathering skill... you visit locations which leak magical properties and absorb them in eseence. The combination between this and the other two elements doesn't make sense to me.

Changing: Alchemies, Teleports, and Most of Psycho's Sorcery

I dislike the name "changing" lol... also, how does enchant not fit into this? Alchemy, Teleportation and Enchament all alter the physical properties of the target item - changing them into something else, relocating them, empowering them, etc.

Conjuration/Summonation(both taken aaargh!): the ability to summon raw energies of magic...the magic strength skill

I fail to see the "magic strength skill" from your one line description. It sounds more like my manifests from my tomes idea, which you flamed for taking the heat from Summoning (whilst you agree with ideas like Necromancy and Demonology, which also would).

Casting/Manipulation: The attack skill

At least you finally agree attacking and everything else aren't the same skill. Wink

Spells could now be cast in two ways...which one you use is toggled at the top of the spellbook interface: Raw and Refined....raw trains Conjuration...refined trains manipulation

So Raw and Refined is just the Accurate and Aggressive attack styles, only in magic format? Good use of terms, btw. Smile

――――――――――――――――
If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:09 am

unfortunately conjuration/summonation are already in use so...

But basically what I mean is that when you draw upon the magic energy of runes you can be better or worse at pulling all the energy from them...So basically as this skill gets higher the sheer amount of power you can summon for your spells is higher...but they become harder to control when they have more power...raw casts is trying to use as much power as you can...a refined cast is trying to manipulate it as best you can

Runecrafting is drawing energy and storing it in runes for later use, Enchanting is drawing energy and storing it in jewellery/bolts for alter use
Imbuing is drawing energy and storing it in stuff for later use

In any world i've created in my mind Magic has 3 types ... Casting, Imbuing, and Affecting (CIA ftw) These are general terms for the different ways in which one uses magic...you either use it to change something, store it in something, or form it and cast it at something...of course you may completely disagree
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:22 am

unfortunately conjuration/summonation are already in use so...
So? Both Conjuring and Summoning make no sense for what you intend anyway. All your suggesting is a magic-strength skill, where a higher skill allows you to use the magic within runestones more powerfully. This doesn't fit the terms conjuration, or summoning (or words to those effect).

Runecrafting is drawing energy and storing it in runes for later use, Enchanting is drawing energy and storing it in jewellery/bolts for alter use Imbuing is drawing energy and storing it in stuff for later use.
Aye, storing it in runes for later use - resource gathering. You aren't storing it in a piece of jewellery to use at a later date... you aren't using a different medium to collect rune energy, they are nothing alike. Enchanting is altering, or "changing", the properties of said item.

Going by the "Magic" concept in most games - not including everything that is magical, such as demonology, necromancy, summoning, etc - I only see three skills, also. Effectively your "Casting" idea - this is basically just an attack skill; a strength-skill to some respect, where your force behind your attack is stronger. And a chemistry-like - anything that manipulates physical properties. Smile

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:26 am

You summon the power within the runes...
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:29 am

That's not really a good reason to call it summoning. I summon a sword from my sheath... it's just a fancy word to mean "produce".

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:30 am

Dude stop f-ing attacking my use of language... does it really matter THAT much
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:34 am

... well after you used imbuing to mean a combination of runecrafting and enchantment, I don't know if its an intentional thing or just using wrong words. I'm sorry I questioned - questions aren't attacks, otherwise something is majorly messed up there.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:38 am

Well I view enchanting and runcrafting as far more similar than enchanting and teleporting
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:40 am

I fail to see how teleporting and alchemy are the same if enchantment is not classed under the same definition. I'm still failing to even understand how enchantment and runecrafting are anything alike... the definition of enchantment alone is nothing like runecrafting - runecrafting stores and enchantment, well, enchants. You don't enchant essence - you are keeping reserves of energy in the ring, or whatever. It's no more runecrafting than alchemy. Confuse

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: RuneScape's Great Magical Debate!

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:45 am

But you are storing magic in both of them
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