Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

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Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:06 am

First topic message reminder :

I've changed the title of the thread because the apostrophe wouldn't behave.

The twelve labours, inspired by both mythology and our unofficial mascot Dark Sylvania;

Nemean lionNemyonGuantletsWritten by Jeeves.
Lernaean hydraLernosDiademWritten by Jeeves.
Cerinean hindCerinaHelm
Erymanthian boarErymontAxe-hammerWritten by Jeeves.
Augean stablesAugoHelmWritten by Trixtor.
Stymphalian birdsStympho
Creten bullCretosMace
Mares of DiomedesTrace
Shield of HippolytaHippolytaRising Sun
Cattle of GeryonGeryon
Apples of the HesperidesLadonGolden Apple
CerberusCerberusStaff/Whip



Timeline of the Mythics' Quest;
• Grandeur, the gateway to the Mythics' Guild, must be appeased. The requirements for this section are merely the skill requirements for the quest, having completed the Legends' Quest and having a certain number of quest points. The plinth that Grandeur stands on has three icons connected by rivulets. You need them all to light up.
• Through the gateway you can see the image above, basically. Only, the warrior is also a statue and facing the other way. These thirteen statues are, in effect, Hercules and the twelve labours. Accompanying them is a fourth character, imposing as a thirteenth labour - Durial, our antagonist.
• "Herclues" will introduce the labours, and what they are for. It should be noted that the labours themselves, and Herclues, are irrelevant to the quest at the moment. Players can complete them now or later. It should also be noted that Hercules does not mention Durial, our 13th Labour. Trying to make him stick out.
• Each labour would be based on the labours from Greek Mythology. This is the guild of Mythics after all, and Greek wouldn't be the only source when we finally have access to the guild. "Completing a labour" involves retrieving a lost relic that has been hidden in your time. These tasks take place in both RuneScape, and bespoke instances.
• Durial requires three items; the Blades of Eleyon, the Cloak of Shadows and the Potion of Vulnerability. Each item will require utmost knowledge of RuneScape, as no requirements are officially given. This quest may seem long - but the labours aren't required at this point.
• After obtaining all three items for Durial he will exit the guild - returning to his own time. In the same cinematic, future-you will arrive; panting hysterically and cursing that he took too long (mentioning something about other future-yous and how he failed to improve... which you will also say).
• Future-you, though you don't know it yet, will tell you what you need to do next; which of the three labours you should complete. You require the Rising Sun, the Hydra's Diadem, and something defensive to counter the Blades of Eleyon. Future-you will also tell you what Durial's true intentions are.
• After having obtained these, your next mission is to activate the Chronarch's Throne, an altar capable of reversing the flow of time within the guild. *insert more on this segment*.
• Successfully rewinding time, you most exit the guild into the past and locate Durial. The fight will be epic... think Nomad, just harder (or perhaps not, Dark's still killing himself trying to kill Nomad). During this fight Durial will accuse you of being Guthix, among other interesting foods-of-thought.
• Return to the guild and fast-forward to the present. On your way to Grandeur, to speak with your future-self, you will notice two omens - Durial and yourself. Panicking, you run forward to try and stop yourself handing Durial the items. You will, of course, fail... and, well, you can probably see where I'm going.
• This segment is surprisingly easy, merely tell your past-you what to do.

The quest needs to end somewhere. Possibly when you exit the Guild and Grandeur's gargoyles will laugh at you, seemingly aware of you you'd just done. Or... the moment you return to the present it's quest-over, with aiding past-you merely being a required postal-script. I suppose that's the only issue with having a quest with no true questmaster.

February 14th, 2010;
Spoiler:
Passed the Flames of Lloigh-enn, is the pathway to the Guild of Mythics. By now you have already passed through Grandeur, the great archway. Durial stands blockading at the end of the guarded walkway.

Durial appears to be one of 13 statues that line the pathway to the Guild. Players may complete all or none of the 12 statues before Durial. Durial requires a potion, a blade and a cloak obtained from yet-to-be-decided locations. Three of the twelve statues will prove useful for the later part of the quest, so if you do them before Durial it will save time doing them afterwards. After having collected Durial's items, he will leave to his own time and our futureself will become the obstruction to the guild. If you haven't already done the required labours, our futureself will tell us which to do.

*insert timetravel section*
February 13th, 2010;
Spoiler:
Thus far we'd only actually come up with guildlore and items we wished to include in the quest. The actual layout for how/why the items were obtained kept changing so Jeeves and I didn't feel bad coming up with a new reasoning. The following also adds an actual guild-set requirement for entry of which there wasn't one before hand.

The Mythics' Guild refers to the entirety of the area within the guild, excluding the path. In that, not specifically a building. This comment here is purely so we have some fixed terminology.

The path between the gate and the guild exists out of sync - almost in real-time, but almost in guild-time. Aligning the path are twelve statues; twelve unique statues. These statues represent the Labours (based on Greek Mythology). All Mythics must complete the Labours in order to enter the guild. Durial stands at the end of the path, observing our progress and awaiting the time that we finish the trials and become useful to him (for until we can actually enter the guild, we can't interact with him beyond words - not good when he needs items from us). Why us? Imagine that scene in films where the main character is nearly still in the centre of focus and life is just zooming passed? That was Durial until he saw us. Something about us stuck out.

Though not accurate with the loading screen, a thirteenth statue stands in the middle of the path immediately when you enter. This statue will introduce you to the Labours. He will inform you that something has been removed from each of the statues and places in your time and it is your task to recover it - Guarding each piece is an avatar of the statue. Once you have recovered all twelve items, you move on to Durial (the thirteenth labour as far as we're concern) - "My missing pieces will require... more creativity." The Rising Sun could easily be one of the artefacts we collect in the first part.

Players should note that the centre statue does not mention a 13th. Our futureselves will replace Durial as a roadblock to the guild. What's required to traverse time is still to be decided.

Any of this could be rearranged. I proposed that each of the twelve items could be a reward - but I then thought that it might be more interesting if that was optional, something post-quest. Or is RFD a good theme? Are twelve relics too many to be a required part of the quest?
October 1st, 2009;
Spoiler:
Durial wants to stop Guthix from remodelling the world into Gielinor, which inevitably destroys all that Durial holds dear. Unknowing of the task, we aid Durial in collecting three items - believing this was the initiation to the Mythics' Guild - the blade of Eleyon, the cloak of Shadows and the Vulnerability Potion (made from the bloodyield, pure ectoplasm and an un-chosen solid that would reflect upon the mind in some way - boiled in hellfire and bathed in starlight).

Upon giving Durial these items, he exists the guild. Of course, Durial was not from our time and left the guild into the 0th Age. As there were no repercussions of our actions, it is to be assumed that was succeeded in rectifying what we've done. However, that's just the optimists way of looking at things. In the present, we haven't yet done anything. But we are not alone. During the second part of the quest wherein we must collect countermeasures to our previous toils, the main personality is our future-self - however, we don't learn this until later, either. The only decided item that we would require to collect was the Rising Sun.

After obtaining these items, we are then required to return to the past in order to fight Durial and prevent him from succeeding. To do this, we must unlock the chamber of fate that resides in the centre of the guild. The guildmasters, the wraiths, will not help you and you will only have the aid of your futureself. He instructs you that their is one additional item that you require, and one that you have held before - the Enchanted Key. To activate the key within the chamber of fate, three present-tense Mythics must stand about the plinth and will it to work - ourselves being one, we must convince the another two to help us. I think the Wise Old Man was decided as one of said Mythics, it's possible that Bob the Cat could be our second (and the hint towards this would be Robert the Strong having a chin wag with us during the quest).

Within the past, some epic fight must occur. Durial will believe us to be Guthix, having traversed time, and will fight us over that though. At one point he will claim that even if we are not Guthix now, we will become "Guthix". Success is required to further the quest, but death applies as with any quest. After defeating Durial we hear a voice echo within our head - to be speculated as Guthix.

Your quest is over. However, there is an additional segment to the quest (sort of like the wish list) where we can aid our past selves complete the quest. This is required so has to keep the flow of time in flux - as we were helped by ourselves, we must return the favour.



Last edited by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:28 am; edited 25 times in total

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:35 am

Durial could be anyone...so long as they have a reasonable reason for why their home was destroyed.

I like Dark's idea for how to counteract all the things we got for Durial, but we would need to come up with a reason as to *why* the rewards from the Labors turn out to be *exactly* what we need. And, if we do go with that, I'd still like to try and work in a time-travel segment somewhere. Tongue

And having a mysterious omen/echo is always a good idea! Once people remember that they never said any of that stuff, they'll start thinking that maybe we go back or else they're some big important dude we haven't met or who knows what! Pleased

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:03 am

Do we not recall the myth? The basis for the legends? For killing his children, Heracles was set ten tasks by his rival: Eurystheus. Durial, or whoever he may be, is the equivalent of Hera, by capturing us in his web he caused us to destroy something dear to us (yes, the entire world is probably pretty damn dear to us). As punishment we are set labors by the gatekeeper, or the omen, or something. At the end of the Labors, the task-setter reveals why we had to do them...to set all things right.

Ideally the twelve labours should be the results of damage done by Durial, possibly across time.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:16 am

Oh, I thought were were only discussing a name change rather than a character change... we named him after the player involved in the Falador Massacre, although I don't remember why (I don't think it was intentionally a homage, more we wanted to name the villain of mythics after a villain). His current motivation is still sound, isn't it?

Writing a time-locked dialogue is fun and frustrating. Sigh

@Dark, Durial's becoming more of a classic villain now. I don't object to the change if that's what's wanted, but he is currently not trying to be a villain. He's trying to save his home, which was destroyed by Guthix to create our home. It's a moral dilemma, because both characters are trying to save someone... Durial's trying to save his people, we're trying to stop him (and by association allow our people to continue).

However, it does nicely incorporate the labours. Although, it doesn't explain why the labours, of all the relics, are special and why they are specifically bound to us and not all other mythics within the guild. But... weave a little bootstrap paradox/prophecy like thing, that's not even an issue. It's a time based quest, things might exist before they're needed.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:35 am

Neither Hera, nor Durial necessarily has to be a "classic villain." Hera's motives were those of a woman spurned by her own husband, and enraged by the prophecy that his son would gain dominion over her chosen people.

Durial now, how about this.

In the old times, Durial was close friend of Guthix's. It may be that they were different classes of beings or the same, no one now knows. But Guthix betrayed his friend, and gave his creation dominion over the planet that Durial's people had once inhabited. Durial, seeking to stop his friend, who was now his enemy, sought among the beings of creation for a man or woman strong enough, brave enough, and gullible enough to bring him the weapons he needed to defeat Guthix in his prime.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Handeath on Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:22 am

Interjection: Can we make this thread and all relating to it a Project, with its own forum? The Labors would thus be their own threads.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:15 am

Okay...so draft of the full plottermajigger.

We somehow have to get into the guild: Reknown, Skill, and Legend right?

Then, we meet Durial who convinces us to get three items

Potion with 5 sub-parts

Shadow Cloak

Blades of Eleyon

Omen/Gatekeeper/Wraith reveals to us Durial's true intent as he teleports away...as punishment we are forced to toil across time to fix the ills he causes as he jumps back and forth trying to find Guthix's crowning moment

We have to seek out the twelve "disasters" and bring back the omen a certain token of each.

The bull's Blood,
the Cattle's milk
the apple
The water of the cleanser

The skin of the lion
The girdle of the Amazon
the horns of the Hind
the horseshoes of the mares

The sinew of cerberus (and/or his teeth?)
The venom of the hydra
The tusks of the boar( and sinew maybe)
The corpses of the Stymphalion birds (or just feathers?)

We also have to use some technique to detect the signature of Durial's passing in these locations and somehow use this to locate his final destination.

When we arrive we fight him...

then we are granted mythic status for having completed the labours...

(Alternate option: after we defeat him, he strikes a final, fatal blow at us, but we are saved by the power of myths, the immortality granted to us for our true heroism, the guild is now a respawn option.)
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:48 am

Brainwave! But after typing it once and losing it before posting, I'll with until I'm home and not on my phone.

Meh, I'm bored waiting for food. Attempt 2.

Reading your comment, I liked the idea that Durial doesn't know when it's going to happen... But I object to "as punishment for helping" for two reasons. One, cleaning up after Durial's ill-actions makes Durial come across as malicious. Secondly, we are our omen... I don't see us punishing ourselves over an honest mistake when they know first hand it was an honest mistake. There's also how did Durial mess up time anyway? He's not a time traveller.

And that gave me the idea, what if Durial goes through time with us to gather his items? His excuse is to be useful, but secretly he's scouting intel. Eleyon's Blade from the end of Durial's age, the Shadow Cloak from the Shadow Age (from my lore in Homecoming Apocalypse) and the Mortality/Vulnerabilty Potion from a future after mortals overthrow the gods (when such a potion might exist). The blade would be the last segment, as that would be the time.

As for the labors, we still haven't explained why Heracles' relics are important when the other relics aren't (the purpose of the relics are after-quest miniquest, they can even be used for player submitted quests as the content isn't happening - it's an echo of past deeds, and omens of future ones)(you assume the role of other characters, you can use dead characters and items that would be impossible). How about Heracles is an omen-mythic? His deeds have yet to be done, so he tells us where to go... But then, if we do them they aren't Heracles' relics... So either they never were, but then, why is Heracles with them or, more importantly, how does he know and how is he in the guild? Perhaps 'Heracles' is an alias, he is our omen? As time happens in the guild at once, deeds we have yet to perform would be in the guild. Bootsrap paradox. Smile

Callum and Durial, then Callum and Heracles, then Callum and past-Callum. The statue of Heracles is separate from his character. Tongue


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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:54 pm

...I just write stuff. Confuse Let me know when you guys figure out what we're writing.

Although I must say that I'm kind of against anything that...obliterates all the writing I've already done. Wouldn't be a fan of that, nosirree.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:17 pm

Durial is wielding powerful Magic to move through time. It makes sense that that might warp the fabric of being, especially when we consider that being was forged by Guthix, who is the target.

I kinda scrapped the idea that we were explicitly following Heracles. I think its more interesting to mirror the Heracles tale (sorta) in our own quest, when it fits so perfectly, than it is to say "Oh and over here is the statue of Heracles. Would you like to do exactly what he did? Oh, you're a quester so you feel honor bound to? Okay"

Also, why wouldn't we tell ourselves to do it if that's how we did it in the past? It's a stable time-loop, we're not gonna mess with it. The "as punishment" is just an excuse used by the Omen.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Dark Avorian wrote:Durial is wielding powerful Magic to move through time. It makes sense that that might warp the fabric of being, especially when we consider that being was forged by Guthix, who is the target.
So how does us time travelling in and out fix the fabric of being? Surely we're just adding more stress. Also, at what point do we gather the counter items if we're just popping through time sewing up holes (that will then rip again when we teleport out, by this logic).

If I'm honest, I dislike the new additions to Durial's character... being a timetraveller, being forged by Guthix, etc. If we knew Guthix personally he wouldn't need to go through time to find out when the event happens, he could just kill him any time prior and it would stop it.

I kinda scrapped the idea that we were explicitly following Heracles. I think its more interesting to mirror the Heracles tale (sorta) in our own quest, when it fits so perfectly, than it is to say "Oh and over here is the statue of Heracles. Would you like to do exactly what he did? Oh, you're a quester so you feel honor bound to? Okay"
Care to reiterate? I honestly made no sense from that. I don't get how the change differs from what you're trying to differ from.

Also, why wouldn't we tell ourselves to do it if that's how we did it in the past? It's a stable time-loop, we're not gonna mess with it. The "as punishment" is just an excuse used by the Omen.

I didn't say we wouldn't tell ourselves to do it, I said we wouldn't term it a punishment. We currently just tell ourselves we've don goofed, and then proceed to tell us how to fix it... not that we're being punished for doing it.

Jeeves wrote:Although I must say that I'm kind of against anything that...obliterates all the writing I've already done. Wouldn't be a fan of that, nosirree.

So far as I can tell, nothing you've written wouldn't work in anything I've proposed. Wow, okay, that double negative doesn't sound like it's convaying the right meaning-- everything you've written would work... there. Smile

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:39 pm



Okay, let's take it back a step to the sources of the discrepancies.

1) Whether or not the labors are used in the quest?
1.1) If yes, why are Heracles' labors so important above other relics within the guild.

And that's virtually it, I think. Changes to Durial's character have all been to with respect to changes to the labors, so we've both added and changed things with respect to how we've added and changed the labors.

Either way, the labors will feature in the guild. It's not writing lost. All the relics within the guild feature miniquests that replay the legend they represent.


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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:59 am

You seemed interested in putting the labors of Heracles in the quest, so I put them in the quest. I knew originally they were based off statues in the walkway to the guild, but once I was weaving them into the quest I no longer saw it as "relics of Heracles" Instead I saw it as weaving the story of Heracles into the fabric of the quest. I honestly think it's stupid and silly to just have Heracles in the guild, for about the same reason I've never really liked JAgex just transplanting Camelot into the game when no other classic legends seem to be transplanted in word for word.

So how does us time travelling in and out fix the fabric of being? Surely we're just adding more stress. Also, at what point do we gather the counter items if we're just popping through time sewing up holes (that will then rip again when we teleport out, by this logic).

Okay, clearly you misunderstood what I said. The "problems" cause by Durial are the species found in the legends of Heracles. Also I think it's slightly pathetic that in a group project you just ask "but how could that work?" instead of spending five seconds to think of a response to your own question. Durial isn't a creation of Guthix. The world is. Therefore as he bores through time to find Guthix (forget any trial and error) he causes fundamental warpings in the fabric. Perhaps guthix has always seen this coming and the time changes are security measures making available the necessary items.

Also. I think it's pretty damn clear that the way we have to time to retrieve the counter items is that the counter items are the relics of Heracles.

I didn't say we wouldn't tell ourselves to do it, I said we wouldn't term it a punishment. We currently just tell ourselves we've don goofed, and then proceed to tell us how to fix it... not that we're being punished for doing it.

f*ck you. f*ck your pedantry. That is punishment, or if not punishment per se, atonement. It's the same damn thing. You know exactly what I mean.

EDIT: Okay, I may have forgotten that we had already worked out some set of Weapons, Armour and various other relics that would come from the labors. I was no longer operating on the assumption that these would be there, perhaps they would merely be side effects. Honestly I'm not a fan of the whole "Hey lets have 15 sub-quests, and have each one give a piece of equipment" It seems like overkill.

I also changed what the counter-items would be. The counter to the shadow cloak in my new story is no longer "Rising Sun" It is instead the bow of bull tusk and cerberus sinew, firing arrows made of the stymphalian birds and tipped in hydra venom.

The counter to the potion is no longer (???) it is instead the mixture of bull blood, cattle milk, apples, and river water.

The counter to the blades is no longer (Whatever it was...wait was that rising sun?) It is now a piece of armour made from horseshoes, nemean lion skin, girdle of Hippolyta, and the antlers of the hind.

----------------------------------------------------

FINAL NOTE:

I really prefer to concept stuff. I work through it out loud, or in this case through posts. When I say something I'm not trying to be the final word on it, nor do I give a damn about particular words, or even the particular way that something is phrased or what exactly that might imply. I get annoyed when you start to be dismissive of my work because one f*cking word doesn't quite fit with YOUR conception of a GROUP project.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:00 am

Dark Avorian wrote:You seemed interested in putting the labors of Heracles in the quest, so I put them in the quest. I knew originally they were based off statues in the walkway to the guild, but once I was weaving them into the quest I no longer saw it as "relics of Heracles" Instead I saw it as weaving the story of Heracles into the fabric of the quest. I honestly think it's stupid and silly to just have Heracles in the guild, for about the same reason I've never really liked JAgex just transplanting Camelot into the game when no other classic legends seem to be transplanted in word for word.

I seemed interested? I was quite content not to include them in the quest. I'm not against them being in the quest, but I thought you were doing this because you wanted them. The original purpose of there existence was just to populate the guild with myths.

Okay, clearly you misunderstood what I said. The "problems" cause by Durial are the species found in the legends of Heracles. Also I think it's slightly pathetic that in a group project you just ask "but how could that work?" instead of spending five seconds to think of a response to your own question. Durial isn't a creation of Guthix. The world is. Therefore as he bores through time to find Guthix (forget any trial and error) he causes fundamental warpings in the fabric. Perhaps guthix has always seen this coming and the time changes are security measures making available the necessary items.

I'm sorry if I don't handle group projects as you think they should be handled... But if I don't understand how something works i'm not going to make it up. It's their contribution, if I don't get something I'll ask them to elaborate. Half the time when I assume something I didn't fully get, I understand wrong and arguments persue just because of an understanding discrepancy.

Also, i'm devil's advocate. Sorry, can't help it.

Also. I think it's pretty damn clear that the way we have to time to retrieve the counter items is that the counter items are the relics of Heracles.


Heh?

f*ck you. f*ck your pedantry. That is punishment, or if not punishment per se, atonement. It's the same damn thing. You know exactly what I mean.

No I didn't know what you meant, this has nothing to do with my pedantacism. Punishment implies we've commited an evil and are being punished. We made a mistake, we helped someone who it wasn't beneficial to help. We're given the oppertunity to rectify the situaton - the punishment is the alternative. If I'd known you were just recantering then yes, okay, but I thought you were proposing... Giving the rest of that passage was largely new.

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:03 am

Seriously... You've known me for how long and you still attack the ways I do things?

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:44 am

Okay, I'm just going to post what *I* remember being the original concept we had for the questline...with handy little letters and numbers so that we can change things bit by bit. Tongue

A) Mythics Guild!
--1) No real origin story, but I was thinking of something like the Wraiths being "collectors" of legendary heroes to keep them safe from falling into obscurity

B) Gate appears in all times, all worlds, etc
--1) Leads to Mythics Guild

C) Initial Walkway to Guild
--1) In sync with the rest of time, but has bits of non-timeness to it
----a) Everyone goes through the walkway in their own time, but it's the same place for everyone
--2) There are 12 statues lining the walkway, each representing a Labor that the potential Mythic can accomplish
----a) WE NEVER HAD A REASON WHY THESE ARE HERE
------i) Maybe they were just the biggest and the best of the various legends performed by memberS of the Guild and are now placed there for other Mythics to test themselves with
------ii) THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE THE GUILD
--------A) Since they don't have anything to do with helping Durial get his stuff, there's no reason they should be here, seeing as the rest of the statues (potentially) are stored inside the Guild in some hidden chamber.
-------iii) They're just random statues that are able to help us. No Heracles, no nothing
--3) At the end of the walkway, Durial is there! He says that in order to get inside the Guild, we first have to kill all the Graats that are rampaging around. We need a potion, a weapon, and some sort of protection.
----a) Potion - Immortality Potion that will actually sap "Guthix's" immortality
------i) Bloodyield - Flesh portion of the potion, found in Meiyerditch sewers
------ii) Pure Ectoplasm - Soul portion of the potion, found beneath Ectofuntus
------iii) MIND COMPONENT - ?????
------iv) Bathed in Starlight - ?????
------v) Boiled in Hellfire - Final part to set the potion, done underneath Iban's Temple
----b) Weapon - Blades of Eleyon - ?????
----c) Protection - Shadow Cloak - ?????
--4) After getting all this for Durial, he goes back to his own time to try and stop Guthix from destroying his homeworld (THIS IS WHY HE WANTS THESE THINGS)

D) Inside the Guild, First Time
--1) We are stopped by an Omen (ourselves) who tells that no, we shouldn't have given Durial those things and now we have to find something to stop him.
----a) WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THIS IS

E) Inside the Guild, Next Time
--1) We have to somehow operate the Chronarch's Throne in order to go back to Durial's time and stop him from destroying Guthix.
----a) Need two (or more?) other Mythics in order to successfully operate the Throne. WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE OR WHY THEY'RE HELPING US

F) Fight with Durial!
--1) He thinks *we're* Guthix, tries to fight us, we use our new items, beat him, etc, etc

G) Return to the Guild
--1) ?????????????????????????????



This is all we have, so far as I know.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:04 am

Hehe. Obviously my original predates any actual discussion on this--*shamefully hides text document*-- but here's how I was aware that the concept was at the time I've gathered from Jeeves' post.

Requirements: Skill, Combat and Renown. OR Skill, Renown and Legend. OR Skill, Renown and Wealth.

A) The Mythics' Guild
--1) No real backstory as to why it exists, aside from that it has always existed. At the time I would have probably said that not having a beginning means it doesn't h ave a point of existence, it's eternal. However, tha doesn't really work and I like Jeeves' idea that the Mythics' Guild is a collection - it has that perverse/intriguing feel.

B) Gate is present throughout time, in a fixed point in space.
--1) Serves as the passageway to the guild.
--2) Visually, you can see through the gateway to the guild like a window, even though the guild doesn't exist in the actualy space behind it.

C) Pathway at the entrance to the guild.
--1) Initial view is constructed to rememble a past loading screen, with 12 statues aligning the path into a sunlit valley.
----a) Durial was to block the endof the pathway so has to prevent players access to the guild prior to his segment of the quest.
----b) The twelve statues then became Heracles' labours, and it was decided to populate the guild with the relics of mythics (at ths point there was no reason for this).
------i) It was proposed that some of the labours might provide items needed for the recovery section of the quest - such as the Hydra's Diadem's immunising effect againstthe vulnerabilty potion. However, it was never decided which would be used or how... Merely a possible sourse of items.
------ii) Heracles was added an additional statue to serve as a guide to his labours, and to cast doubt on Durial's legitimacy as, I think, at the time Durial was imposing as a 13th labor (which Heracles wouldn't mention).

I recall discussion on the entrance being out of sync, but I don't recall it's purpose and without that I don't see why that nugget of information is needed.

"THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE THE GUILD"
They aren't? Everything guild-side of the gate is the guild...

D) Guild time.
--1) Everything in the guild happens at once, allowing present and future and past to coexist.
----a) Time is relative, and things from the past and future will appear differently (not quite as solid and real as the present) - echoes and omens.
2) Time doesn't pass whilst in the guild.

E) Tasks/the quest
--1) Durial requests three items of us. There is no reason other than being a good sport.
------i) A reason was proposed such as the items are needed for a relentless threat, that happens to be invisible.
------ii) I found Durial's reason a little weak. If Callum truly wants a reason, he's not going to accept an invisible threat that only Durial can see and knows about.
----a) Potion - Immortality Potion that will actually sap "Guthix's" immortality
------i) Bloodyield - Flesh portion of the potion, found in Meiyerditch sewers
------ii) Pure Ectoplasm - Soul portion of the potion, found beneath Ectofuntus
------iii) MIND COMPONENT - ?????
------iv) Bathed in Starlight - ?????
------v) Boiled in Hellfire - Final part to set the potion, done underneath Iban's Temple (technically that wasn't in the original Wink).
----b) Weapon - Blade of Eleyon - ?????
------i) I think this too was in segments.
----c) Protection - Shadow Cloak - ?????
--2) After getting all this for Durial, he goes back to his own time to try and stop Guthix from destroying his homeworld
----a) Note that by 'back to his own time' didn't involve timetravel. He merely exited the guild, as time doesn't pass whilst in the guild.
--3) Just as we think we're done, an omen (who later turns out to be us) stops us exclaiming frustration he didn't get there sooner. He reveals Durial's true plan, and instructs what you need to do to stop him.
------i) This was where it was proposed to possibly include the labours.
----a) The Rising Sun is one proposed item, though no plan behind it.
--4) After having obtained the items, we then need to go back to stop Durial. The omen tells us of the chronarch's throne which can reverse time within the guild. (interesting thought, what if the guild is a giant clock/has a clock based appearance/theme? Gears, pendulums, etc?)
----a) Three mythics are required to operate the throne.
------i) It wasn't decided whether this includes you or not.
------ii) Zanik, Bob and WoM were proposed mythics, although I think we wanted multiple paths to complete the quest and thus it was at the player's discretion which Mythics. (I think "why?" is because we asked nicely, the guild is for heroes and legends afterall).
------iii) I think the crystal key was mentioned, but I don't think we went with it.
--5) Fight with Durial!
----a) He thinks *we're* Guthix, tries to fight us, we use our new items, beat him, etc, etc.
--6) Return to the Guild
----a) We aid our past self: seeing Durial we think he must have escaped, but we realise what's going on when we start talking to ourself.
----b) Quest ends with an air of incompleteness, what with there being no closing NPC. So Callum does it himself. Smile

That's what I thought.

Then we wanted to add more time travel. We decided against using the labours at all, and using other in-game mythics in the throne section. Discussion repicked up on using the labours.





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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Ruy112 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:21 am

On the purpose of Mythic's Guild:
-Maybe like the Nordic mythology Valhalla? A place for fallen heroes, waiting to take part in some kind of final showdown (Ragnarok). Of course it would have to be fitted to the quest and altered, I'm just throwing the general concept out there Tongue

On the Guild itself:
-I'm imagining the guild as Rivendale set in autumn, no specific reason why, but it looks epic in my head Tongue

On the Chonarch's Throne:
-Maybe we get to choose the two Mythic's from inside the Guild? Then possibly have them both join in the fight against Durial, or you have to aid one / give one up, in the travel through time, and have a 2-on-1 fight against Durial, or they're only needed to activate the Throne.

On the MIND COMPONENT:
-The following is a mix of a Pokémon game and my imagination, not sure which is which: There is some little girl on an island that sleeps all the times and has horrible nightmares, because a Pokémon lives in her dreams, you somehow enter her Dream World and gets rid of it. I just thought a similar scene would be quite fitting for that component somehow (Not the silly Dream World from Lunar Diplomacy!!!11!!), again just spur thought.

Overall it looks really good, great to finally see some structure Smile
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:32 am

I'm opting for we're the three Mythics' who operate the throne just because of the mindfuck dialogue. Ode to Blink, the best Doctor Who episode evar!

Hehe, thinkng of Rivendale, definately getting a similar vibe... But I imagined sunrise rather than a season, autumn would look nice though (all the golds and reds). Smile

Valhalla sort of couples with the collection idea - a place Mythics end up. Good proposal... But I don't think the reason we're there will matter in this particular quest. But if we're thinking Ragnarok, it appropriately leads Mythics' Quest to the Gods' Quest. Wink (that better not be its name though, sounds lame... God's Quest, blugh).

You know, we can excuse the reason Heracles' labours are so neatly displayed if we just change the clause that the relics are randomly placed. Maybe they're all decorative? Robert the Strong's statue being encompassed by a handful of his foe's. Thus they all look purposefully placed.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:03 am

Yeah, that was my whole issue with them being placed outside the Guild proper. If everything else is just stored in some dusty old room, why would these 12 be so prominently displayed? I like the idea that they're all decorative. Pleased If these are the most dashing/daring/whatever, then it makes sense for them to be right at the entrance when everyone comes in.


Quick thought....this can't be Durial's first visit to the Guild, right? I mean, he can't have discovered this gate and walked through it JUST AS Guthix is destroying his world. That's just silly. I think it's more likely that he found the gate beforehand, went in a few times (like anyone else would do) and then, when he realized what was about to befall his world, ran inside because he knew that it was his last chance at saving his world. As such, there would be at least one other Durial running around inside the Guild...we need to think of a way to utilize this! (Whether it's coming up with a reason as to why we can't just kill him and end the quest or what-have-you...)
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:30 am

Jeeves wrote:Yeah, that was my whole issue with them being placed outside the Guild proper. If everything else is just stored in some dusty old room, why would these 12 be so prominently displayed? I like the idea that they're all decorative. Pleased If these are the most dashing/daring/whatever, then it makes sense for them to be right at the entrance when everyone comes in.

Haha, i never invision Heracles' statues being the only ones outside (outside in the open) but I'd always imagined them scattered. Well, seems I got lucky with that proposition - it fixed both our issues with the statues even though they were both different. Wink

Quick thought....this can't be Durial's first visit to the Guild, right? I mean, he can't have discovered this gate and walked through it JUST AS Guthix is destroying his world. That's just silly. I think it's more likely that he found the gate beforehand, went in a few times (like anyone else would do) and then, when he realized what was about to befall his world, ran inside because he knew that it was his last chance at saving his world. As such, there would be at least one other Durial running around inside the Guild...we need to think of a way to utilize this! (Whether it's coming up with a reason as to why we can't just kill him and end the quest or what-have-you...)

I think originally Durial was exactly like that, a regular Mythic that learned from the the other mythics the fate of his home. Maybe it's our fault? Maybe we tell one of the old hims? Thus ensuing an even more mindfucked chronology of information. Maybe it's impossible to recognise two omens/echoes even if they are the same?

It wouldn't be just as Guthix was about to though...

Throwing out an idea... Guthix happens after Durial's time (in that he's long since dead by the time Guthix shakes the etch-a-sketch). So maybe there's missing information. Guthix said the plain was barren... So maybe a war ensued tha claimed the land. Durial travels time with us and decides on a time that he believes to be close to when Guthix arrives, he waits for Guthix and the we arrive. We point out that his home is dead, but he's deluded by this point and blind with rage. This also softens the moral implications that we're stopping Durial from doing something tha's actually noble...

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:54 am

And this is why I never am able to work on group projects in this forum. I'm late to the party and so when you guys are trying to figure out how to make it work, and I try and help, I immediately run into you (Tom) throwing your hands up the air and saying "but that's not what we had planned...waaaaaaaah" and getting all f*cking confused.

And then everyone else is like "Oh yeah i remember that, lets dig through those old plans that never bore any damn fruit" and go around and start riffing on the concept. God, you should honestly just tell me to interfere whenever your damn plans die because clearly though my ideas are no good, you guys get galvanized into remembering all the old schemes you got bored of.


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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:47 am

I don't know if it's that we got bored? I think it's more that we just sort of...lost the drive. The ideas are still good, we just can't get ourselves to write it.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:14 am

Well, the drive is going again. Tongue

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dragon78114 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:50 am

hm.......

BTW, Avorian, you tend to be like that with Pallis... Tongue

ANYWAY....

Haha, i never invision Heracles' statues being the only ones outside (outside in the open) but I'd always imagined them scattered. Well, seems I got lucky with that proposition - it fixed both our issues with the statues even though they were both different. Wink

Um... That's how I imagined the Mythic's Guild entrance... That there are only the statues of Heracles' labors. You might want to improve your description. Wink Honestly, there probably are people more mythical than Heracles.

Also, about Durial's origin. How about him being a legend who recently elevated to status of Myth because he protected his people from annihilation. Upon entering the guild, he realizes that it is time that his people will die out, and Guthix comes in and rebuilds the place. Misinterpreting this evidence, he thinks Guthix is the one who destroyed his home, whereas in actuality, his people killed themselves off with plagues and wars. Guthix is merely trying to restore life, but feeling heroic and mythic, he decides to take on the god. There, he waits around for someone rather foolish, but at the same time extremely powerful. And thus, with time, you arrive, and Durial takes advantage of you.

Also, just one thing I noticed. Before you enter the guild proper, Durial stops you. That won't make sense since the way the Guild has been recently described, the Entrance is in YOUR time, whereas the actual guild exists in ALL time. The only way Durial can contact you would be, therefore, in the Guild. So perhaps, he meets you in the relic room, and that would also make sense if we move all of the statues inside there as well.

Perhaps he can trick you in to believing that the way to *truly* harness the Guild, is by doing his tasks to help him, a fellow legend, destroy the Graaks.

I don't know, Judging by the past discussion we're going in loops. Well, that was my suggestion to throw out there...
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:01 pm

The whole Guild walkway thing always threw me off...I think we had it worked out to where time "flowed" sort of like it does normally, so that people can come and go in their own time, but that time doesn't "pass" so that Durial *could* conceivably sit and wait for everyone to pass him by.

Anywho, I think that before we can do any more writing on the quest, we need to figure out what the plot is...

-1) WHO IS DURIAL?
-2) WHY DOES HE NEED OUR HELP?
-3) WHAT ROLE DOES THE GUILD PLAY IN ALL THIS?

My answers:

1) A hero in his own time who entered the Guild right before his world was destroyed in hopes of permanently delaying it until he could find a way to defeat the god or set things straight some other way

2) Over countless millennia, he has gathered enough information from passing legends to start formulating a way to beat Guthix. We're just the first adventurer who's willing to help him out.

3) The Guild is a collection, of sorts, of legends from across time and space. It could be useful as a secondary objective, but it's really just utilized in the main quest to go through time.

Can be changed, just my thoughts. Tongue
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dragon78114 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Honestly, I think everyone here is over-thinking it.

Everyone has their own opinions and unfortunately, no consensus has been made... I honestly think we should stick with something simple, to avoid even more, pointless conflict in the time when we can have this FINISHED. -.-


EDIT: I honestly feel this thread should be closed, and a new forum devoted to ALL of the topics addressed to have an individual thread. That will be SO much easier to handle because we're switching back and forth from topic to topic in no apparent order, and it is SO confusing to follow, and honestly I think this is why we're so damn confused and angry!
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