Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

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Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

I have come to the conclusion that this is the worst skill possible. This is probably the ONLY update that Jublex has ever had that I hated.

After 2 hours of 1 level, we failed. So my hopes for level 7 (that's right, the WHOLE LEVEL 7!!!) are done. FOREVER!!! (I use forever lightly)

I give up on this skill and will NEVER train it again... (I use never lightly)


Last edited by TATORZ on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:31 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by invinible on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:32 pm

I was able to confirm that you can get in and out of Daemonheim through the Wilderness.

And where it is at makes that route the faster way to get to the Grand Exchange than by the boat.

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:55 am

Dark Avorian wrote:I'm sorry if i disagree with you. Slayer, hailed by a large proportion of high levels as one of the best skills, could easily have been made as a simple minigame with complex rankings. similarly, even if you say there's a level of skill in that there are many runescape skills which to be perfectly honest don't really make sense, i mean honestly, why si mining rune harder than mining iron (options (a) rune is weaker, or (b) you need more strength)

Slayer could be a minigame but the Slayer skill itself is required outside slayer - you require 85 Slayer to kill Abyssal demons, outside of training slayer. As part of the Thieving expansion to suggested-Ardougne includes being assigned tasks such as steal *blah* from *blah*. Dungeoneering isn't required outside of Dugeoneering, nor do I see how it could. Aside from, "You require 70 Dungeoneering to enter this dungeon"... but it's waaayyyy too late to start imposing that sort of requirement on places that people access freely at the moment.

As for mining, Rune is harder to mine than Iron because iron is weaker. Ideally there'd be a pseudo-small chance of mining everything at all levels... swing your pick at a Rune rock long enough and you'll succeed. But ah well. Alternatively, it could be similar to Herblore. The level is required to prospect the ore - else it's useless.

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:37 am

Psychoboy8, and the TST, wrote:I think all the new metals, lumber, hides and fabrics should be released into RuneScape. However, you don't just solely require the skill level, you also require a level in Dungeoneering. Similar to how the Slayer skill prevents all players from collecting Abyssal Whips.

• Novite - Unlocked to the Smithing skill at level 1 Dungeoneering.
• Bathus - Unlocked to the Smithing skill at level 10.
• Marmaros - Unlocked to the Smithing skill at level 20.
(and so on)
• Tangle gum - Unlocked to Fletching at level 1.
• Seeping elm - Unlocked to Fletching at level 10.
• Blood spindle - Unlocked to Fletching at level 20.
(and so on)
• Protoleather - Unlocked to Crafting at level 1.
• Subleather - Unlocked to Crafting at level 10.
• Paraleather - Unlocked to Crafting at level 20.
(and so on)
• Salve nettle - Unlocked to Tailoring at level 1.
• Wildercress - Unlocked to Tailoring at level 10.
• Blightleaf - Unlocked to Tailoring at level 20.
(and so on)

With the exception of the first, the resources could be made available 5 levels below (or 4 in the case of the 11th tier/99 levelled items). So;
• Bathus Ore - Unlocked to Mining at level 5.
• Marmaros Ore - Unlocked to Mining at level 15.
• Seeping elm - Unlocked to Woodcutting at level 5.
• Blood spindle - Unlocked to Woodcutting at level 15.
• Submastyx - Unlocked to Hunter at level 5.
• Paramastyx - Unlocked to Hunter at level 15.
• Wildercress - Unlocked to Farming at level 5.
• Blightleaft - Unlocked to Tailoring at level 15.

Placing the resources will probably be the hardest. However, there's plenty of unused land to stick a few dinosaurs (like east of the Duel Arena - bit strip of unused land). The tailoring resources are weeds which could grew anywhere as well as being farmed - like flax. And trees... well, they're all creepers in Daemonhiem - so the same could be said outside. Also - we have loads of areas filled with trees purely for decoration (since unused by players); replace some!

As for other places to train - duh! Jublex promised us instances ages ago, and they've finally delivered! All they need to do is pick a new location, send in the makeover mage, and duh-dah!

Along with the Dungeons of Daemonheim; Lagoons of Tukaii of the south coast of the Khazari Jungle, and the Seige of Fort Amontine north-west of Piscatoris (made up places of course). Lagoons are submerged and fills with mere-people, and aquatic creatures (RuneScape's atlantis); the Fort filled with cursed knights and paladins (like Daemonheim only more medieval England).

Of course, we don't want 11 new tiers of armour with each one. I'd say... ditch two-thirds of the stegosauruses for some aquatic theropsides and some raptors. The raptors could easily be placed in daemonheim, so they're only losing a third of their armoury. That is, unless you fill the pools with baby water-ones that can be net-hunted.

Then, maybe a third of the lumber for water-based trees (both land-instances can use the same land-trees). Of course, again, putting the water-based things in land-based instances is hard... I guess the trees could be growing over the edges of the pools?

Water World isn't an all-underwater instance as some of the sections are dry, so the visa verse - putting the land-based resources there - isn't conplicated at all.

2 2 5 wrote:"Tailoring"

Are you suggesting this as a new skill?

Is it really justifiable to make it a new skill if it can fit into crafting?



I agree I would love the ability to make some of this gear outside of RS.

For smithing, depending how much of it they would release, is almost the exact think i would want out, (make level 99 armor!)

Of course a problem would be how this would effect combat outside of RS...with so many new things*****, even with the smithable prometh... i belive are still better in stats, and clearly better for special.

Psychoboy8, and the TST, wrote:Tailoring can either be a new skill or a sub-skill of Crafting (like it has Weaving, etc, already).

I don't think it's effects would be negative on combat. Novite and Bronze are on par with each other, and Bronze offers a wider variety, so it's purely a choice of appearance. And once players have accustomed themselves with the scale (like, which colours are high and low) then in that sense everything will be normal.

Perhaps tier 9-11 could be given special attacks, perhaps even the same special attack only increasingly more powerful. This would make them desirable over the many better kits out there. Dungeoneering Dagger - "Jack of Blades", the player draws a circle in the air with the dagger and a halo of daggers forms around the target... and you can guess what happens now. The number of daggers increases with tier (so 9=3, 10=4, 11=5), and the minimum damage the special causes is increased. As I mentioned above the Dungeoneering set is smaller, so the amount of specials required won't be massive.

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:20 am

I can't help but think the guy in the new front page header and the side bars looks like Zachary Quinto (Syler, Spok, etc). It's the look on his face lol. XD

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:37 am



Looks like an entirely new game. Tongue

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by trixtor on Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:16 am

Ya...
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:16 am

It practically is... a game inside a game that you level in.
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:58 am

I'm sorry, but you guys of all people i would have expected to be slightly less narrow-minded. It can easily be used in quests, it will be expanded and rebalanced (likely in the near future).
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 am

ROFL. For what? expanded? Rebalanced?

2 new rooms and 1% more exp?

Explain on how it can be used in quests.
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by invinible on Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:19 pm

Never played a Legend of Zelda game?
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by Jeeves on Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:51 pm

I haven't tried Dungeoneering yet (mostly because I can't put stuff in my bank yet) but from what I've read and heard about it, there's no reason why it can't be implemented into things like quests. It might just be a skill that adds on to other skills, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have it's own uses! Without Dungeoneering, you wouldn't be able to use any of the add-ons which might be necessary for a quest. Or it could just be a more insubstantial requirement like "Oh, I should be experienced in making my own equipment or dealing with strange monsters before undertaking this quest". I dunno...just my opinion.
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:51 pm

I'm not narrow minded, Dark. You said yourself that the content is likely to be updated and rebalanced in the next few weeks, and that's true. But that comes from negative feedback... which you're scalding us for? I have good things to say about it too.



I think the content is great and the potential is undeniable. But it's poorly used at the moment. The skill itself provides nothing to the player... It's not resource gathering, it's not producing anything, it's not a combat skill, and it's not even character-building like Thieving and Agility. I've suggested that the resources be made available throughout the game - this alone makes dungeoneering a character-building skill if nothing else. At the moment it's just a minigame.

I'd like to make clear that my next point isn't an issue unique to Dungeoneering, just that Dungeoneering could have avoided it;
When they inevitably release new dungeons the new content will be instantly available and thus worth less... Because players will already have high levelled Dungeoneering. There's no denying that Dungeoneering, as it stands, makes a good minigame. If it remained a minigame then it would be possible that each dungeon starts from "level 1".



Lastly, I personally don't see how anything can require the Dungeoneering skill unless it's an instance-based puzzle.

"You require level 20 Dungeoneering as you will be required to navigate a dungeon." Dungeoneering style, not like Taverly dungeon. Tongue

That's like; "You require a rank in Castle Wars as you need to be experienced in defending/sieging a castle."

Jeeves wrote:Oh, I should be experienced in making my own equipment...

That's Smithing, Fletching, Crafting, etc... you don't learn those things in Dungeoneering, Dungeoneering requires that you already know them. New players will have no hope in Dungeoneering...

Jeeves wrote:...dealing with strange monsters before undertaking this quest.

They're only strange to veteran players 'cause they're new... New players will see them as the norm. Although... isn't Slayer and Hunter suppose to teach us how to deal with monsters. Wink



It has potential, and I'm eager to see how the skill changes over the next few weeks. But I'm not going to apologise for having feedback.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:14 am; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:25 pm

Not sure if I've said anything positive about the skill before, but I do agree with 3mpty that the content is amazing and the potential is there.

1) Give accumulative exp (for unlocking rooms, defeating creatures, gathering resources, refining the resources, completing puzzles...) and then some bonus exp at the end for doing good instead of all at the end.
2) Make all the skills you train get full or at least realistic experience. The way it works right now with experience makes it feel like a minigame.
3) Give a rewards system. How about when you leave a dungeon, you can keep the item you've bound to yourself and one random item in your inventory. Maybe for higher level dungeons and dungeoneering, you could keep multiple random items.

If I said I couldn't think of it as a quest requirement, I'm sorry and I didn't mean it. It would be pretty easy for Jublex to slap on a level 10 dungeoneering level for practically no reason.
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:44 pm

I apologise for how dylexic my last post was, but I can't edit from my phone. Sad

Tatz, I don't fully agree with either of your points. Firstly, due to how perfect the training environment is, anything near to full experience would be abused. Although a little bit more wouldn't go a-miss, especially since the game is so heavily reliant on other skills.

The experience itself: it would be nice if we got it throughout and not a bulk at the end. Me, TATz and 225 spent a good hour and a half yesterday in a dungeon before we excepted that we weren't going to win. We'd unlocked every room and defeated every opponent (bar the boss) and had used nearly every resource available. We had a level 300+ bohemouth with only three of us, and we were running low on magic (as in runes to teleport to the stone). And once we were out of food... Game over. It'd kill us too fast to stop it from eating. All that potential experience was lost!

There needs to be a retire feature which brings up the usual rewards and just penalizes for not completing.

In terms of reward... Nah, the current tokens are fine. But as other people have said it would be nice if the loot received at the end was kept regardless of if it's bound or not. It's a completely pointless feature atm 'cause people would prefer to keep what they've already bound.

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If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by Dark Avorian on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:30 pm

I think they key steps to making it better are these

1) Look at the skill and figure out what ability is being improved...is it some sort of problem solving thing in our characters?

2) rework with that in mind...
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by Ruy112 on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:39 am

I died 74 times, taking down a level 403 boss today. I just vengeance'd myself, vengeance'd the other guy in my team. And suicided, but we won in the end, though I got no exp due to the deaths.
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by Jeeves on Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:53 am

Haha, from now on I'm going to refrain from shouting out my opinion on things I know nothing about. Tongue
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:38 pm

I just got the 'Against All Odds' thing... you know when you complete a dungeon and you get survivor adn stuff on the right side.

I defeated Icy Bones with 1 hitpoint left to get that, I needed under 10. Grin
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:50 am

Mint! Smile

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:31 pm

Chocolate chip?
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:19 pm

Strawberry! Grin

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:18 am

Cookie dough!!!
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by trixtor on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:07 am

Cake mix!!!!!
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:30 pm

Oreos!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:12 pm

... get out!

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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

Post by TATORZ on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:31 am

This is my thread! YOu!
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Re: Re: 12/04/2010 - Dungeoneering Skill

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