Light and Vision

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by MorbiusMonster on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:34 pm

Light cannot be bent in normal physics, it can only be reflected.

When light is reflected of an object, it becomes visible.

UV light and infrared are invisible to the ordinary eye.
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:52 pm

Light CAN be bent by normal physics, however the rest of what you said is true. Although I don't know what you're telling me that for... This is the Quest forum.

Colour-blindness is a fault in the eye/brain. It'd be like printing when you're out of red or whatever. Tongue


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Re: Light and Vision

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:00 am

My theory was so much better.
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:52 am

Well what else could colour-blindness be? If it was anything other than a personal fault it would affect everyone - especially since you already seem to have a good understanding of how light works already. Tongue

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:03 am

Reason for splitting: Morbius decided to discuss how light and vision work on my quest thread in which neither had previously been stated. Wink

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:26 am

How does this sound.

Colour is effectively different wavelengths of light, therefore different forms of radiation. There is a component in your eye that is associated with colour, the cones. My theory is this.

As with all neurones (nerves), a stimulus needs to be provided to cause depolarisation of the membrane by opening specially designed channels on the cell membrane allowing sodium ions into the neurone. Some protein channels on neurones open when deformed either by pressure or heat. In this case, a particular transmitter substance is needed to open the channels, the cones.

When certain wavelengths of light hit the cones, it stimulates them and causes them to bind to specific receptors, allowing them to open and allow sodium ions to enter and cause depolarisation and therefore transmitting an actional potential when the membrane potential reaches -50mV. There are also different neurones for each major wavelength of light, red, blue and green, and corresponding cones.

Action potentials have an "all or nothing" principle to filter out low level signals. This means the membrane, normally at -60mV, must reach the threshold potential -50mV or an action potential will not be transmitted. Therefore, my theory is that colourblind people may have the following.

1. A mutation in a variety of cones may be present causing them not to be stimulated by the correct wavelength of light and therefore not even startting depolarisation.
2. Simply not enough cones of a particular colour exist to open enough channels to cause enough depolarisation to reach threshold potential.
3. The receptors (also being proteins like the cones) may also have suffered some deforming, either through natural mutation or by trauma as a result of injury or infection. Without the correct receptors, the channels won't open to the correct cones.

It has nothing to do with the brain itself.

Now you have this, read it and delete this discussion.
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:38 am

That all literally made no sense to me.

For me it's as simple as light hits the eye and an image is composed (similar to cameras I'd assume). Not being able to see red is caused by that which detects red in your eye being faulty. Although, it could also be caused by not having any red light being cast upon what you're looking at... but we're assuming you're not in a room with only blue-green lighting. Wink

My friend's only colour blind in one eye - so I'm guessing each has it's own controllers. Wink

Saturation, brightness and contrast are obviously controlled separately. How much light it's giving off and what colour it is being detected separately... otherwise colour-blindness would be the inability to see even greyscale, surely?


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Re: Light and Vision

Post by jeroenvt on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:20 am

Colourblindness can be caused by genetical failure, brain malfunction or ultraviolet rays. Wiki.
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:20 am

It's still personal and nothing to do with reality. Tongue

Although it would be interesting for someone to remove the colour from something... *sucks the blue out of the water*

Mwuhahahahaha!

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by jeroenvt on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:29 am

Ohnoez!

Hmm... I wonder what makes water blue... To google!!

-cheesy theme song rolls whilst my head comes up in a spiral and then goes back-
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:32 am

Water's probably blue for the same reason as the sky... light scattering. It appears more blue because it's also reflective and the sky is blue. Wink

So me removing the colour from water probably wouldn't be noticeable on a clear day... and when it's not clear it's too murky to tell anyway. Soooo... it would only be noticeable in the bath, or a pool, etc. What used to have a slightish blue tint would now be perfectly clear!

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:34 am

Here's a question... can you actually see darkness? Or is it just a case of you can see things around it... Tongue

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by jeroenvt on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:34 am

But that would mean you'd remove the light from it. Which is impossible. The only think that light can't escape from, I have posted on RIP Zavionce?
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:42 am

Light is affected by gravity... the sun affects it, although, you can't see the effects because the Sun's too bright. The only observations have been during eclipses - when the Sun is still there to distort the light coming from behind it, but we can see because the sun isn't in the way. Wink

Also, I know you can't remove the light from something... I was just being silly. Imagining that colour-blindness could be an external thing rather than a processing malfunction. Tongue

Although... things are only blue because they reflect blue light. If you could make them absorb blue light then they would be black - assuming it's pure-blue. So... water probably wouldn't be completely clear. It'd be slightly black (if I remove the blue). Confuse

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by Ruy112 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:00 am

Light can be affected by gravity, that I know Tongue
Else, how would you create an event horizon?

Things that appear blue absorb red and green light, black stuff absorbs everything.

I know nothing, I'm only 9th grade Tongue
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:15 am

If black absorbs everything, can you see it? Can you see "nothing"? Tongue

I love the event horizon purely because everything beyond it is travelling faster than the speed of light - and we all know that's impossible. Of course, it's only relative to use that it's moving faster than the speed of light. Tongue


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Re: Light and Vision

Post by Dragon78114 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:28 am

All light is made up of three basic colors: red, blue, and green. Once mixed, you can have every color in the world. Black and white aren't technically considered colors, since they are neutral VALUES not color. Black is the absence of light, and gray and white are equal mixtures of all light. Take for instance LED lighting. If you set the Red vales and Green values at max intensity, you have a super-bright yellow light. However, set it at medium and you have dark yellow. Add in blue to the same level as the green and red, and you have gray.

Color is the sensation of reflected light off of objects. Now, an object's ability to reflect this light is made up the substance the object is made of. Like if you show a red pot in blue light, it will appear black, since there is no blue light reflecting off of it and the blue light is absorbed. If the pot reflects an equal amount of light of all three colors: red, green, and blue and the light is white, the pot will be gray. Put it in the room with red light, and the pot will appear red.

Now, as Morbius described, well you have cones in your eyes that pick up these blue, green, and red lights, and they determine what reflected light picked up by the object, is further broken down so the neurons can send the info to the brain to make a picture of what you see. Now, if these cones are off, BAM! you can only see the greens and blues predominantly, but still have an awkward bit of red in there, making everything look grayish.
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:50 pm

...which is what Morbius said overcomplicatedly and what I said in two lines. Wink

I'm just interested in what Morbius' theory as to what causes colour-blindness would be if not something that's a personal fault. Tongue

<~>

Wait, all light is made up of three basic colours? Surely that's wrong? Light is a spectrum. Mixing paint might be three separate basic colours... but our eye doesn't just detect red, blue and green in different quantiles? Does it? Surely the cones or whatever detect the frequency of the light and produce a true image? Not just the closest it can create with buckets of rgb toner. Confuse


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Re: Light and Vision

Post by jeroenvt on Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:23 pm

Woot Grin So true ^^
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by Dragon78114 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:02 pm

3mptylord wrote:...which is what Morbius said overcomplicatedly and what I said in two lines. Wink

I'm just interested in what Morbius' theory as to what causes colour-blindness would be if not something that's a personal fault. Tongue

<~>

Wait, all light is made up of three basic colours? Surely that's wrong? Light is a spectrum. Mixing paint might be three separate basic colours... but our eye doesn't just detect red, blue and green in different quantiles? Does it? Surely the cones or whatever detect the frequency of the light and produce a true image? Not just the closest it can create with buckets of rgb toner. Confuse

I do agree that men tend to be more general about naming colors. However, I disagree completely with the color names, and I will argue to the fullest why they shouldn't be named that way at least for some of them. I describe colors, not necessarily slap names on them mainly because of my artsy background. XD

To answer your question, take for instance white light or black light; there is not specific a specific frequency of light that determines the color. White is made up up all colors, and black is absent thereof.

When you mix two or more lights together, the lights' wavelengths interfere, making the new color. For example, you have a red light at full intensity and blue at half, you wind up with a indigo-violet light. Turn the blue to full, and you have magenta. Obviously the red and the blue interfere with each other creating a different color of light. Wink

More proof: Red light has the lowest frequency, then orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, then violet with the highest. So then blue must have an stronger effect on the red light to bend it to violet. Its like adding the frequencies together.

Also, somehow when you have green and red at full yellow making it painful to look at, adding a blue will make the yellow ironically easier on the eyes, softer, and creamier.

Yes it does, our eyes, that is. Your eye is trained to sense the lighting in the colors and how the certain frequencies change each other. If you were colorblind with red, just remove the red lighting to the picture. Imagine a beautiful farm with a blue farmhouse, green fields, a red barn, and a chicken chick running about. To a person who is colorblind, and cannot see red, what looks like a green field is still green and the farmhouse is still blue, but duller, and the red barn is blue-green-grayish-black. However, the yellow chicken chick will be a dull teal. Whatever looks white will be cyan. So, there must be a problem with receptors receiving the red light. That is an extreme case, since most of the time you might see the faintest tint of pink when you are colorblind. Wink
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:00 pm

Intensities of light would control the saturation? Brighter and duller?

But what I meant was-- in real life it's not as simple as red light, green light and blue light. It's red, burnt orange, orange, yellowy-orange... and so on, with thousands of colours in-between. The sun doesn't just send red, blue and green light... it sends 0 to infinity (I'm guessing Tongue) frequencies of which we can only detect so many, and see even less.


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Re: Light and Vision

Post by Dragon78114 on Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:54 am

http://www.fch.vutbr.cz/home/richtera/old/source/web/rgbslide.html

Wink
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:56 am

I mean real life foo'... not just how computers do it. Wink

It's like digital to analogue. Tongue

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Re: Light and Vision

Post by Dragon78114 on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:03 am

our eyes see the world's color in the reverse way of how computers do it.

like said before our eyes breakdown the image of what we see so our neurons can send in the information to the brain to create a picture

they do this by talking in the image and breaking down the image into three basic colors, send it to the brain, and restitch the image
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Re: Light and Vision

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:53 am

Our brains a pixel display too? D'awwwwhh. Sad

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