sometimes... would be great..

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sometimes... would be great..

Post by Zectiox on Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:23 am

First topic message reminder :

could we like, do one thing done before beginning with a new one x_x.. I've seen and read many unfinished quests, locations, events, activites.

thank you, im out of ideas right now.. I hate that.. -.- *sigh*
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:08 am

MorbiusMonster wrote:I haven't seen a really decent quest for a very long time.

This sentimental nostalgic assumption annoys me. And trust me I've felt that way a lot. But thinking back, none of the old quests were any better than what they put out now. Honestly we've just matured past Runescape and therefore we judge the quests by an unreasonable measure. Back when we were noobs, semi-noobs, mediocre players etc. we thought all the quests were half decent, but now that I have done them all, they seem kinda weak when they come out.

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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:14 am

How could a game get around that without releasing quests at a highly unreasonable pace that would likely mean they are lame?

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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by MorbiusMonster on Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:09 am

Basically, I'd only play again if a quest was released that was fresh and bold, not being stuck to some of the continual storylines they seem to adhere themselves to. I want a quest that makes me feel something, other than relief that it is over, some genuine emotion now and again wouldn't kill anyone.

Scrap the unneccessary humour, because how is anything supposed to be taken seriously if you keep joking about? A little can be used to break the tension, but not too much where it just becomes silly and childish. Scrap the steroid enhanced bosses and OTT combat, because a really good quest wouldn't need to have some much of this if the story or the content was good enough. All the time, quests seem so very much the same all the time, with just combat and bosses, combat and bosses etc. What happened to quests that didn't just favour the warriors all the time?

And above all, scrap mildness. A villain that really makes you feel is one that is irredeemable on any aspect. It's fatal flaw isn't brought to attention though it does have one, it's not someone who makes it look so obvious, looks comical or too cliche. If people are going to die, make it appear graphic, make them sound like they do feel pain and don't just flinch and pop out of existence. And don't hesitate to be even the slightest bit politically incorrect, villains are meant to be prejudice, the worst ones always are.

Length doesn't always equal brilliance. I found While Guthix Sleeps to be a little weak. When Lucien kills those characters, there was no real emotion, only the minor shock of human loss. The bond was only strongest with Hazelmere, but then again, you saw no suffering and no real pain, he just *snap* died.
The story itself was something that couldn't stand up on its own, it needed so many quests to balance it, and only a couple were actually referenced significantly. It wasn't all that impressive.

That is what I mean by a decent quest, one where the player feels real emotion from playing it, otherwise they wouldn't be greatly engaged, one where the story can stand alone and succeed well, one where the gravity can be felt, and not just lifted by simply jokes, one in which the villain really does embody all that is evil and corrupt and people generally do feel unjustified by falling victim to them.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by MorbiusMonster on Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:48 am

Of course, no one is here.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:33 am

3mptylord wrote:How could a game get around that without releasing quests at a highly unreasonable pace that would likely mean they are lame?

You can't. MMO's thrive on change as discussed. The only way to overcome the issue I raised is to release them at a very slow pace so that you can make them epic. Morbius pointed out some of the best ways to do that.

MorbiusMonster wrote:Basically, I'd only play again if a quest was released that was fresh and bold, not being stuck to some of the continual storylines they seem to adhere themselves to. I want a quest that makes me feel something, other than relief that it is over, some genuine emotion now and again wouldn't kill anyone.

I agree on the second part. But I think it's a bit off that you want other questlines. If you want emotion then you are going to need to delve deeper into the richly developed stories we already have. We have a relatively rich history to Runescape, and for me that is the best place to go to find emotion and depth. Look at how long the Dorgeshuun quests went on to get the basic emotional connection with Zanik. That being said, of course we need a fresh, bold, new take on it, but I think the pre established, rich history is far better than some new thing we plop down and stable crudely into the history.

MorbiusMonster wrote:Scrap the unneccessary humour, because how is anything supposed to be taken seriously if you keep joking about? A little can be used to break the tension, but not too much where it just becomes silly and childish.

Hmmmm... You have something of a point, but not entirely. I think the more important aspect is separation. I'd like horror movies, thrillers, comedies etc. but it's when jagex tries to mix a lot of humor into a serious quest that it becomes wierd. I like comedic reliefe quests, but I think that they should be a sort of separate category.

MorbiusMonster wrote:Scrap the steroid enhanced bosses and OTT combat, because a really good quest wouldn't need to have some much of this if the story or the content was good enough. All the time, quests seem so very much the same all the time, with just combat and bosses, combat and bosses etc. What happened to quests that didn't just favour the warriors all the time?

To make a good videogame it's not just stories, you also need interesting and varied gameplay. If you haven't noticed, a lot of people don't play Runescape for the story, that shouldn't stop us from creating awesome stories, but I think we need to keep in mind that gameplay is also a key element. Combat is one of the main ways of creating interesting gameplay and challenging gameplay, so don't bash it. It shouldn't be used to replace story, but it also shouldn't be removed once you have story.

MorbiusMonster wrote:And above all, scrap mildness. A villain that really makes you feel is one that is irredeemable on any aspect. It's fatal flaw isn't brought to attention though it does have one, it's not someone who makes it look so obvious, looks comical or too cliche. If people are going to die, make it appear graphic, make them sound like they do feel pain and don't just flinch and pop out of existence. And don't hesitate to be even the slightest bit politically incorrect, villains are meant to be prejudice, the worst ones always are.

My only point here is that sometimes situations that aren't black and white are more compelling. Otherwise... OH MY GOD YES! This is so true. I think you really captured an important issue here.

MorbiusMonster wrote:Length doesn't always equal brilliance. I found While Guthix Sleeps to be a little weak. When Lucien kills those characters, there was no real emotion, only the minor shock of human loss. The bond was only strongest with Hazelmere, but then again, you saw no suffering and no real pain, he just *snap* died.
The story itself was something that couldn't stand up on its own, it needed so many quests to balance it, and only a couple were actually referenced significantly. It wasn't all that impressive.

Okay, you all think I'm sociopathic, but I also thought there was a strong bond there. I actually felt pretty sad. Also, why is it bad that he would be disintegrated, seems like a simple way to kill someone without the mess. Also, about it needing quests before it to hold up...well...um...that's pretty idiotic, most finales of series, (TV, movies, books) wouldn't stand up without the already established situation.

MorbiusMonster wrote:That is what I mean by a decent quest, one where the player feels real emotion from playing it, otherwise they wouldn't be greatly engaged, one where the story can stand alone and succeed well, one where the gravity can be felt, and not just lifted by simply jokes, one in which the villain really does embody all that is evil and corrupt and people generally do feel unjustified by falling victim to them.

Meh. I think you're sort of oversimplifying and overlooking and ignoring things. I want quests where you can feel the gravity. But I think a long build up with other quests that help lay the foundation for it (building without foundations can't stand up...) is a great way to go. And I think your view of how the villains should be is a bit narrow. What if I want a villain who I can understand, what if I want a complex villain, a misled young general, a tortured man seeking revenge for good reason?

MorbiusMonster wrote:Of course, no one is here.

1) I'm sorry I don't Cabbage spend my whole day thinking about this site, I spend several hours on it most days, and I've seen no one on here a lot more often than you have, for longer than half an hour, so shut up and stop whining.

2) EDIT YOUR POSTS! IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER THOUGHT TO ADD AND YOU HAVE THE MOST RECENT POST, EDIT YOUR LAST POST! IS IT THAT HARD?
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:47 am

Would releasing a whole storyline in one go aid or hinder? Not one quest, but the whole saga in one go?

I think more variations than just combat and story should be added, but I don't think RuneScape is capable of it just yet. Perhaps racing--having segments of quest where you ride carts, or ride on the back of a dragon/ride a glider to kill a dragon. Reading and fighting aren't the only methods. Perhaps something similar to Guitar Hero, and all it's clones, where you have to press buttons to coincide with that on screen. I don't know. Tongue

(I have put a lot of thought into how gameplay would vary for a hypothetical game Wink)

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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by MorbiusMonster on Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:31 am

There is one thing the RuneScape engine isn't capable of, rapid response and thinking. It feels to restricted. It takes turns, you can remain still and nothing can happen. It would be safe to say, it's too static.

It needs to move a little more, so you don't just take a blow from the enemy willingly when fighting. You ought to move around a bit more and only need those kinds of defences offered as a precaution, not a neccessity. Have you ever seen a video game where you just stand still and take a blow and the enemy does likewise? It's not as fair as that, foes can duck and dodge and you should to.

Of course, in order to make that work, the player would need to adopt Agility more strongly into combat. When you dodge, you gain exp. points. If you dodge well and fluently respond to strike back a foe that loses its balance when it tried to strike at you in the first place, then more exp. is rewarded. Sounds simple, but it eliminates two important points.

1. Agility is member's only. If Agility was to be used more strongly in such a way, it would need to be made as a non-member's skill.
2. Some players aren't fond of rapid responses, which is what draws players to it in the first place. Because it is internet based, it is safer to not have rapid responses gameplay, because server break down means you simply couldn't attack at all.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:24 am

MorbiusMonster wrote:It needs to move a little more, so you don't just take a blow from the enemy willingly when fighting. You ought to move around a bit more and only need those kinds of defences offered as a precaution, not a neccessity. Have you ever seen a video game where you just stand still and take a blow and the enemy does likewise? It's not as fair as that, foes can duck and dodge and you should to.

Don't a lot of the new bosses have area of effect spells which require you to keep moving to avoid taking damage? And a lot of strategy guides for solo'ing high levels involves running continuously to avoid melee combatants.

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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:31 am

Honestly I don't think Runescapes target demographic is veterans/hardcore players.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:19 am

Should be a difficulty setting at the beginning;

Noob: Never played RPGs before.
Moderate: Have seem experience in RPGs.
Experience: Play something else.

Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:24 am

3mptylord wrote:But I made no reference to rewriting in that point. I specifically said no changes are otherwise made. Confuse

Actually, I guess that wouldn't be entirely true. For some of the present day stories to happen 500 years later, in the new present, some changes would have to be made to the events shortly before. Such as King Uthas, Lathas' and Tyras' father; his reign would either have to move, or their father would have to be Uthas' great-great-great-great-great-great grandson. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Dragon78114 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:50 pm

3mptylord wrote:Would releasing a whole storyline in one go aid or hinder? Not one quest, but the whole saga in one go?

I think more variations than just combat and story should be added, but I don't think RuneScape is capable of it just yet. Perhaps racing--having segments of quest where you ride carts, or ride on the back of a dragon/ride a glider to kill a dragon. Reading and fighting aren't the only methods. Perhaps something similar to Guitar Hero, and all it's clones, where you have to press buttons to coincide with that on screen. I don't know. Tongue

(I have put a lot of thought into how gameplay would vary for a hypothetical game Wink)

Don't forget explosions. Tongue


I think Jagex is trying to vary the types of combat, but remember, they have a LOT of limitations on what the servers can bring upon. Also, remember who the targeted audience for Runescape is: middle schoolers/elementary kids who never played RPGS before. Of course this game is rather childish! However, there are some exceptions, as most newer and harder quests are fit for the veterans who tend to be much older or mature.

Now with my suggestions, being rather dark and all, will hopefully make it more appealing to the audiences despite their hugeness and drama. Unfortunately, when placed within the context of the game, my quests seem awkward for being too dark. But hey, Jagex needs to keep it appropriate for the little ones- if the material is too dark for the kids, it might really shake their intended audience.

Now, the best suggestion to rid this problem is to play a rather dark violent/dramatic game with only bits of comic relief by getting a console or finding another MMO. Wink

I honestly think this game isn't going to get any darker.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:04 am

I don't think we're trying to make this game darker. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Gladzosaurus Rex on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:38 am

Well I for one want the twenty-pointed pentagrams back instead of the silly smiling demon faces on the dungeon walls.
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:13 pm

>twenty
>pent

*cries*

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Gladzosaurus Rex on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:48 am



Was something like that except the inner circle was much larger in comparison to the outer points. Don't cryyyyyyyyyyyyy
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:49 am

I'm not sure if that's a PENTagram. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Gladzosaurus Rex on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:57 am

Actually it consists of four pentagrams laid over each other, each shifting 22.5ş. Or something like that
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:02 am

If it was five pentagrams laid over one another at 21.6o I'd be more impressed. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: sometimes... would be great..

Post by Dragon78114 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:17 pm

hm.... well it is a geometric possibility... well, it may or may not be. for a twenty-five sided figure, try 16 and 2/3 degrees. Tongue

Or some rather strange parametric graph... o.O


EDIT: ...but then I probably don't know what i'm talking about. Razz
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