Make Combat More Interactive

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Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:03 am

Augments and Interactive Combat


Credit: 3mptylord and Slayer10090
Partial: Dark Avorian and Blaze FF8

For the most part this idea only effects Ranged and Melee combat, and this will be difficult to amend so long as Magic is predominantly weaponless (or rather, without class-specific weapons). Ideas of mine such as Conjuring and Firearms would provide Magic the equipment it requires to truly utilise this idea; but wands and—to some extent—staffs will also allow it.

This update doesn't require that players interact more than they already do. In a nutshell, the entirety of the current Combat Styles panel can be found in the top and bottom line of the revised panel: the weapon name, combat level, attack styles (accessed via right click) and auto-retaliate. The special attack is the only feature to have changed (see on).

All weapons would be given a single "default" attack, likely one it's current combat styles (it's experience type can be changed via right-click). In addition, all weapons would be given the following;
• Between two and three perks (aka "abilities", "alternate attacks" or simply "attacks").
• A circle augment slot.
• Between zero and two specialized augments slots.

A modification to the interface to accommodate shield slots:
This image includes some features that have yet to be explained, but read on.

Shields would be given a single slot, which isn't lost upon trade (similar to the circle slot). The shape of the shield-slot can vary (for weapons such as Anti-Dragonfire and Spirit Shields), but this for the most part this will be a standard shape.
Perks have effects, the simplest of which being an instant attack. Each perk has a cool down which takes effect when the weapon is first equip, as well as between attacks. An attack that is in cool down will be coloured red, which will slowly drain to illustrate the time left (this could also feature a number in seconds over the top)(the transition of the drain could either be a top-to-bottom drain, or a countdown/clockstyle). In case you didn't catch that, newly equip weapons won't have any available perks instantly (unless they have no cool-down) - thus, switching weapons will not bypass cool downs.

Augments too have effects, and come in two varieties: active and passive. Active effects come into effect when the icon is clicked (can be both one-off and duration based); whilst passive effects are always in effect whilst the augment is in use. "Active" effects have cool downs just like perks, and just like perks these cool downs will come into effect when the weapon is first equip (an active cool down will not effect any passive effects).

Regarding my comment at the top, the lack of special attack bar is the only part of this suggestion which impacts the current combat system (as all other features are optional). Special attacks will appear as active effects on augments (unless their effects are changed as part of the update, I reckon Excalibur's Sanctuary should have an area-of-effect passive too); removing the special attack bar. Players who use a single weapon will likely find this update beneficial, as they can use attacks more frequently; whilst players who weapon-hop will find this detrimental, as there is no global control for special attacks (and switching weapons will in fact reset any active cool downs).

Augment information:
Augments come in an array of shapes, such as (although this list may change to become more/less specific);
• Circle - Non-specific
• Ellipse - Shortbows and crossbows
• Semi-circle - Other bows
• Triangle - Daggers and shortswords
• Square - Longswords, scimitars and maces
• Rectangle - Warhammers, battleaxes and broadswords
• Pentagon - Quarterstaves, staves and wands
• Hexagon - Polearms

• Circle - Generic augments (inc summoning)
• Cross - Moderate generic augments (inc summoning and constitution)
• Crossed-circle - High-levelled generic and bound augments. (inc summoning, prayer and constitution)
• Triangle - Ranged-based augments.
• Square - Melee-based augments.
• Pentagon - Magic-based augments.
• Hexagon - Ranged-strength augments.
• Rectangle - Melee-strength augments.
• Heptagon - Magic-strength augments.
• Semi-circle - Light weapon augments. (most are speed-based effects)
• Rhombus - Standard weapon augments. (mix of speed, damage and defence).
• Trapezium - Heavy weapon augments. (most are damage/defence based effects)
• Kite-shield - Shield-augments.
• Dragon - Draconic Visage.
• Spirit - Spirit Sigils.

Augments can be obtained as direct drops, from weapons/weapon drops and as rewards. Some augments are bound to the weapon that they are found in, such as Dragon Weapons and most existing weapons with special attacks or set-effects. A bound augment is always circular.

A weapon with customized augments cannot be traded. If dropped, any non-bound augments will be dropped loose (inadvertently this will probably be the quickest way to clear augments from an item)(non-tradeable augments won't be visible to other players). Upon being traded a weapon will lose one of it's default number of specialized augment slots (this can remove all specialized augment slots)(the circle slot is not affected by this). Hopefully, this loss can occur at the recipient's side so that players can drop and reprise their own items (such as in event of death) without damaging their weapon... although, this could be a penalty of death (and thus don't bother, just have it happen when dropped)(although this would make my dropping-to-remove comment undesirable).

The premise of slot loss is to award getting it an item for yourself without making it non-tradeable, and thus no longer worth obtaining.

Some example augments;
• Frenzy (Triangle) — Increases weapon speed by 2 for 10 seconds. (active)(30 sec)
• Dragon's Rage (Pentagon) — Increases magic damage by 15%. (passive)
• Dragon's Eye (Ellipse) - Increased attack ranged. (passive)

It's possible that augments could have level requirements to insert, or to use. Although, ideally, the requirement to wield the weapon should be the only limitation on this system. Percentage effects would be the best solution... something such as Dragon's Rage isn't overpowered at low levels (although I'd imagine it's expensive), as it's 15%. An added pro to the slot-loss system is that, unless the low-level acquires the item themselves, the item may not have a pentagon slot in the first place.

Proposed that augments could be player-made, or at least some of them. For example, unstrung amulet could be enchanted as that to create augments. These would be circular, and thus generic/non-specific in their effects.

Description of the image:
Air Staff
- Attacks:
- - Default: Assertive, Stab, Attack XP
- - Perk 1: Focus
- - Perk 2: Pound
- - Perk 3: Shunt
- Augments:
- - Circle: Empty
- - Pentagon: Warlock's Rage
- - None

The image shows that Pound has recently been used. The Shunt attack, which the player is viewing, knocks the enemy back one pace, and stuns them for one second. This perk is designed to stall, and his no impact on the damage dealt (although damage dealt would still be required for the effect to activate). The player is also using the Warlock's Rage augment, which has two abilities: a passive ability that will occasionally save runes; and an active ability that will cast a free spell (with a 5 second cool down). Warlock's Rage is not bound, and can be removed and placed in another weapon.

An altercation:
This spoiler denotes a now-unused functionality. The difference in the image is the default attack, here "Bash", now "Assertive" to denote the experience type. The reason for this change was that the reasons behind it did not outweigh the predicted public outrage.


The motivation behind using only a single experience type per default attack was to create a need for unused weapons types as players would not be able to easily train all their melee-combat skills on a single weapon choice. For example, a dagger would only be useful for training Attack, whilst a battleaxe would be used to train Strength and spears still being used to train both at once. Note I said "easily train", as most weapons will feature perks that would earn experience in the other skills and so training all combat stills is still possible with one weapon (it's just not pure-friendly).

This was replaced with the ability to right-click.

In this version, Defence is unlikely to have any weapons that their default attacks are defensive (on principle)(you may disagree, admittedly I didn't think very hard here). On the fly, I could only think of four solutions (assuming that the right-click isn't used in general practice);
• Defensive be the only option available via right-click, perhaps even not available on all weapons.
• There is a toggle to enable defence, but this wouldn't allow defence-only.
• Defence experience from perks is substantial enough to replace the lack of defence-style, but this still doesn't allow for defence-only.
• Perhaps one-handed weapons may only have a maximum of two perks, and equipping a shield or secondary weapon will add an additional perk that will allow for defence experience (again, this doesn't allow for defence-only.


Boosts and Curses

I'm going for the overkill now...


An alternative with 6 affliction slots:
Affliction slots display those effects provided by consumables/allies or inflicted by enemies, rather than passive effects provided by your own equipment (such as augments and prayers).

Whilst I've jokingly used the little warrior icon to display a message, that icon could bring up a full list of personal effects (such as the Slayer Mask, etc.).
...like this!:

The strength amulet current doesn't actually provide any effects, I just grabbed a random amulet. It could, however, provide an area-of-effect strength bonus? Something like a taunt/battlecry maybe? Rally the troops!
These slots only display duration-based effects (anything which lasts for longer than the instant it was used). This will either be indefinite (so long as whatever's causing it is around) or a timer. In practical terms, the only things that aren't displayed here are boosts like Vengeance and Cure Other/Group, which activate instantly, and Blood spells, which have no lasting effect. Something such as Cure Other could have a resulting effect, "Recently Cured", which grants temporary immunity from poison (which I think potions currently do, but I'm not sure about cure spells).

A player cannot be affected by any more than there are slots available - so a player that is poisoned and diseased cannot be further afflicted. You can ignore/remove boosts by right-clicking on them, however, curses cannot be removed without appropriate action (such as an anti-poison potion). In the event that you have no available slots and someone tries to use something, there are instances where your current effects might be temporarily (or permanently) replaced. For example, temporary boosts will take precedence over passive boosts (as you'll get the passive back when it's done). This isn't normally the case for curses, as getting poisoned might be considered a safe-guard to more powerful area-of-effect curses (which wouldn't be fair).

To make things easier, most effects would be given some sort of priority rating. Also, like-effects (such as poison and specific skill boosts) would replace weaker effects. Effects such as those aforementioned generally won't stack, but this would (again) be case-by-case.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:09 am; edited 32 times in total

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:50 am

I think poison should act as it does now on current poisonable items, just extend it to a few others as an augment. i.e. you can poison a dragon long if you get a dragon long.

You shouldn't decrease the amount of default attacks to only one, Maybe it looks nicer on your little image, but in reality giving weapons the option to have multiple attack styles is an absolute must if you want the suggestion to go anywhere, since, you know, you need to be able to train different skills.

I don't particularly like the idea of circle augments. It smells to me of a slot that will become as uniform as the whip in the weapon slot. I think we just let poison be poison on the things that can be poisoned. Or just have those items have a single "Deformed Amoeba Hypercube" augment that's always there and gets poison.

Edit: Otherwise, awesomeness, makes afking harder, makes pking cooler. Nice suggestion.
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:57 am

Perhaps it could be right-click change the style of Bash between Assertive, Aggressive, Controlled and Defensive? Without actually changing the name, or adding buttons?

But with regard to training different skills, use a different weapon. Dagger shouldn't be used to train strength and defence anyway. This would also encourage the use of other weapons that you wouldn't normally use... you have to use something like a battleaxe to train strength. (I'm not saying I'll keep this, just responding in context of the thread as it currently stands.)

Also, agreed on poison. You caught me at a spur-of-thought moment and I kept editing what I had.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:30 pm

Oh, and just by the way, If your shortsword is pointless, buy a whetstone.

Thank you, I'll be here all night.
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:40 pm

Oh ha de ha.

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by MorbiusMonster on Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:07 pm

Perhaps it should be made more interesting and more spontaneous. People use ancient magic, because the effect is guaranteed. Perhaps normal magic should have extra effects as well, but something like a 10% for very basic spells, and 40% for wave spells.

Something like this;
Air - Chance of foe being blown back slightly
Water - Chance of stunning
Earth - Chance of speed reduction
Fire - Chance of burn

I would like a combat that could be more spontaneous. Stuff like Critical Hits (not an exclusive feature to Pokémon in any way!) or add on effects, to stuff like individual monsters (like quest monsters) having a hidden effect.
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Blaze FF8 on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:57 pm

I love the idea, it'd give weapons and armour a far greater sense of variety. Of course, if anyone were to compile a list of these augments, they'd need to check them all very carefully; I can only imagine how easy it'd be to come up with a ridiculously overpowered combination for any weapon.
Speaking of power, perhaps there could be a way of actually crafting augments? (Mixing several items together in an certain manner could create an augment). This way, the most powerful augments can only be obtained through great effort, and not from something as simple as a drop?
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:59 am

MorbiusMonster wrote:Perhaps it should be made more interesting and more spontaneous. People use ancient magic, because the effect is guaranteed. Perhaps normal magic should have extra effects as well, but something like a 10% for very basic spells, and 40% for wave spells.

Something like this;
Air - Chance of foe being blown back slightly
Water - Chance of stunning
Earth - Chance of speed reduction
Fire - Chance of burn

I would like a combat that could be more spontaneous. Stuff like Critical Hits (not an exclusive feature to Pokémon in any way!) or add on effects, to stuff like individual monsters (like quest monsters) having a hidden effect.
I'm going to make the assumption you didn't read the idea, and merely responded to the title of the thread. Otherwise, I cannot fathom how your post is a relevant response. The point of this thread is to make combat LESS spontaneous. Combat is ALREADY spontaneous and people dislike the lack of interaction. I'm all for critical hits - but that's isn't wholly related to this idea.

Problem with magic isn't that there isn't interactivity... players have a variety of spells that can be switched between. The current problem is cost of runes/inventory consumptions - players don't want to make death more penalising and don't want to waste room in their inventory carrying runes for multiple spells. I foresee the death update resolving penalty, and if they just hurry up and release some sort of pouch then magic may become more interactive - players may carry all their runes, all the time. Of course, giving air, water, earth and fire effects would be useful - otherwise, why bother with anything other than fire?


Blaze FF8 wrote:I love the idea, it'd give weapons and armour a far greater sense of variety. Of course, if anyone were to compile a list of these augments, they'd need to check them all very carefully; I can only imagine how easy it'd be to come up with a ridiculously overpowered combination for any weapon.
Speaking of power, perhaps there could be a way of actually crafting augments? (Mixing several items together in an certain manner could create an augment). This way, the most powerful augments can only be obtained through great effort, and not from something as simple as a drop?

In terms of crafting, I was thinking that if you enchant an unstrung amulet you get an augment. Circular augments are generic (as proposed) and thus there would be room for 6 player-made augments. But as a whole, I don't think that augments should be player-made. Requirements to augment a weapon I'm all for... such as smithing. Although, I'm somewhat apprehensive as I don't feel augments will provide enough drive to actually train the skill and thus the whole system will go unused by the majority of players.

Augments will be rare, in most cases. Maybe 99/100 weapon drops won't have an augment in it, and direct augment drops are even rarer. The potential array of augments would make finding ones you want/don't already have perhaps a little more frustrating. And the really powerful ones would be obtained from high-level monsters (still rare, though). Some quests could reward them - these would generally be untradeable. Treasure trails, random events, etc.
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:09 am

Here's me trying to decide how augment slots should be assigned... bronze-through-runes would have two, a generic and their respective weapon type. But then I was thinking, nah, they should only have one so they have none when traded. Or, is this too harsh? Plus, when traded they would only have their generic slots which limit the customization to what are deemed "generic" effects. Thus a dagger cannot become it's utmost without a triangle slot.

What are some basic stats that players/weapons have in other games? On the RSCF we briefly discussed things like critical hits, regeneration rates, etc, it would be interesting to try and work these in. Smile

Some off the top of my head: Health, Health Regen, Mana, Mana Regen, Rage (although this is more of an effect in most cases... become more powerful with consecutive hits), Shield, Speed (movement), Damage Per Second, Armour, Critical Chance and Dodge.

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:08 am

So yeah... Hi everyone. Got myself an account on here just so I can be involved where all the action's at.

3mpty, did you see everything I posted on the Runescape forums? Want me to copy/paste?

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:29 am

I haven't logged on today, so you can copypasta if you want. Smile

P.S. First post has been updated.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:33 am

So here it is... about 4000 words on here... Enjoy

"Ok, so I'm reading through everything you've posted here and on the suggestion site (which took a while to find, by the way) and I've gotta say, that overall your system seems to work. (My only criticism being that you've forgotten to credit my part in its development ) But thats not a problem, because I plan on doing much more to gain credit. I'm really with you on this one.

Troubleshooting a few points
1. The idea of slots being lost when traded. It seems kinda punishing to me... I can see the positives; Its an incentive to train slayer and smithing and similar, re-adding value to these parts of the game. But it also seems to punish people who trade weapons. Also, can Runescape's coding handle that? I'm no expert... Perhaps you'd like to consider augments being untradable

2.i. Similar effects already present in-game. Poison first. Putting it in the triangle slot seems to me like it would turn poison into unused content - compared to some of your other triangle examples, it seems pretty weak. Plus that causes you to allow poisoning on shortswords. While that finds a use for them, doesn't it shift their uselessness straight onto daggers? Just have a separate augment slot for poison - surely that would make everyone's life easier.
ii. Noticed a remarkable similarity between possible add-ons to shields and the sigils which you attach to spirit shields? To preserve spirit shields as they are, I think you should make another unique slot (which isn't lost by trading) on blessed shields that can only be filled by these sigils, which would become part of the whole augment scheme

iii. The longbow sight from dungeoneering. That kinda screams ellipse augment at me... Doesn't really need any complex system to incorporate it into the system either - in fact, I like the idea that your system would allow it to be attached to any longbow. I thought it was stupid that it could only ever be used on maple and magic longbows anyway...

Those three points would make a good case for introducing this into Runescape, by the way. It makes the whole thing a lot harder to criticise when you can turn around and say "well something similar has been in Runescape here, here and here for a long time..."

3. The loss of control over what XP you get. Its hard enough training strength with a whip as it is . Plus many weapons have been designed with having multiple attack styles in mind. All weapons need to retain their attack styles for this idea to be accepted by the community at large. I've had a look at the interface you've suggested and I think this could be done with a right click option on the bit that tells you your style (to the right of where it says "Staff of air" and "combat level 91". I really really don't like the idea of all weapons having a single default attack style. That actually takes a lot of strategy out of the game, which entirely goes against what we're trying to achieve, in my opinion

4. Weapons currently with no special. I may have overlooked you talking about this, but do you plan on adding this system to ALL weapons to some degree, or just weapons that currently have a special? Just want clarification on that one

5. Unique weapons that don't (or shouldn't) fit into your system of classification. I'm thinking barrows weapons, Korasi's sword and the barrelchest anchor to name a few. What do you plan on doing to them? Just go through case by case? Or fit them all into a catagory?

Other than that, I give this idea two thumbs up. I'd like to start thinking of augments, if thats ok with you?"

A few of the things I found in there have already been pointed out by people here. I left them in when copying and pasting because I thought I'd let you know I agree with them...

So yeah, let me know what you think
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:07 am

Slayer10090 wrote:which took a while to find, by the way
Really? We're top result on Google for "suggestionteam" and "suggestion team", and second for "suggestion site". Unless this is just Google's behind the scene tracking giving me recommendations, and for other people this isn't the case. Tongue

1. The idea of slots being lost when traded. It seems kinda punishing to me... I can see the positives; Its an incentive to train slayer and smithing and similar, re-adding value to these parts of the game. But it also seems to punish people who trade weapons. Also, can Runescape's coding handle that? I'm no expert... Perhaps you'd like to consider augments being untradable

I don't like things being untradeable, I'll state that now. I think RuneScape can handle a simple toggle stated whether it's second hand, even if such doesn't already exist: they would be rewriting weapons anyway, so they can easily add that along with everything else. Personally, I think slot-loss has better pros and cons than nontradeable.

Slot Loss
• Rewards smithing, slayer, training combat.
• Permits profit.
Nontradeable
• Rewards training combat.
• Does not permit any profit.

2.i. Similar effects already present in-game. Poison first. Putting it in the triangle slot seems to me like it would turn poison into unused content - compared to some of your other triangle examples, it seems pretty weak. Plus that causes you to allow poisoning on shortswords. While that finds a use for them, doesn't it shift their uselessness straight onto daggers? Just have a separate augment slot for poison - surely that would make everyone's life easier.
Poison as an augment is not decided, I think me and Dark came to an agreement that weapon poison wouldn't be effected... but there might be augments that poison. Poison as an attribute would still be useful even if daggers have augments that are more immediately useful.

Thanks for reminding me actually, I'm going to try and work in a third update to this montage. Wink

ii. Noticed a remarkable similarity between possible add-ons to shields and the sigils which you attach to spirit shields? To preserve spirit shields as they are, I think you should make another unique slot (which isn't lost by trading) on blessed shields that can only be filled by these sigils, which would become part of the whole augment scheme
Shield-slots would not be lost by trading, similar to the circle slot on weapons. Perhaps there could be two shield-slots, although a weapon will only ever feature one: standard (kite shaped) and blessed (star shaped). Sigils would be star shaped, and blessed shields would be the only shields currently to have the appropriate slot. Thus, spirit shields are now incorporated into the system (although, how easy is it currently to remove them? as I wasn't planning for augments to be difficult, aside from you must be out of combat).

iii. The longbow sight from dungeoneering. That kinda screams ellipse augment at me... Doesn't really need any complex system to incorporate it into the system either - in fact, I like the idea that your system would allow it to be attached to any longbow. I thought it was stupid that it could only ever be used on maple and magic longbows anyway...
I'm so accidentally amazing. Wink

3. The loss of control over what XP you get. Its hard enough training strength with a whip as it is . Plus many weapons have been designed with having multiple attack styles in mind. All weapons need to retain their attack styles for this idea to be accepted by the community at large. I've had a look at the interface you've suggested and I think this could be done with a right click option on the bit that tells you your style (to the right of where it says "Staff of air" and "combat level 91". I really really don't like the idea of all weapons having a single default attack style. That actually takes a lot of strategy out of the game, which entirely goes against what we're trying to achieve, in my opinion
Fair point. I do agree with the reasoning against this part of the idea. Smile

4. Weapons currently with no special. I may have overlooked you talking about this, but do you plan on adding this system to ALL weapons to some degree, or just weapons that currently have a special? Just want clarification on that one
All weapons. Current special attacks will feature in augments. For example, Dragon Pickaxe would come bound with the "Shock Augment", this has an active effect that drains 5% for the opponent's Attack, Ranged and Magic (the cool down being however long it takes to currently restore the bar, as it uses 100% at the moment).

Edit: This is apparently 5 minutes to recharge fully. This might be a little steep. Currently this is to prevent weapon-hopping abuse... but since timers come into affect when you first switch weapons, this could effectively be halved. 150 seconds to use this special, jump to dragon battleaxe and it's another 150 seconds before you can use that - thus, still waiting 5 minutes (essentially... sort of).

Unique weapons that don't (or shouldn't) fit into your system of classification. I'm thinking barrows weapons, Korasi's sword and the barrelchest anchor to name a few. What do you plan on doing to them? Just go through case by case? Or fit them all into a catagory?
I don't see why they wouldn't fit. For example, the Blighted Aura augment is unique to the Ahrim's. Augments, in this case, could have requirements such as the whole set equip. If you click on it whilst just wielding the staff: "You require the full armour-set to utilise this augment".

I'd like to start thinking of augments, if thats ok with you?
Go for it, I was about to as well. (although I was going to get a list of weapons and which slots first, to meet Blaze's concern over balance issues).

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:32 am

Excellent. I appreciate the clarification and agreement (in general anyway)

Whilst I'm not 100% convinced, your idea of slot loss within trading does, when laid out in pros and cons, seem to be the better alternative. What about weapons that can only be bought from shops though? The dragon mace, battleaxe, longsword and scimitar all fall into this category, I think. I take it they'd come with the losable slot?
Oh, and a warning before completing the trade would definitely be needed

So for the augments themselves... I'd like to go ahead and start getting some ideas typed up before I forget them, they can be sorted into slots as we work on balancing and catagorising, as you mentioned.

So, the main idea I've had so far...
Task reward augments
To me, it seems like a nice idea that each of the different task areas give an augment upon completing their sets. Obviously, these would get more and more powerful the higher up you go. I'm struggling to decide whether these should all be generic augments, or whether each area would have its own shape to match it (eg Lumbridge tasks could all give triangle augments, Falador all pentagonal, etc)

Ideas for actual augments. (These are all pretty spontaneous, so feel free to just say "no, that wouldn't work")
Pacify - (generic circle, active) makes all enemies non-aggressive for 15 seconds - great in crowded multicombat areas, but obviously totally ineffective in PVP. Cooldown of 45 seconds. Much like the shadow-silk hood, it would not work on bosses, and might perhaps need to be ineffective in some quest situations too. I like the idea of this, or variations with different timings, being the Lumbridge task augment, because while its not too powerful, it could be really really useful to new players and makes a good introduction into the augment system.
Ice envelope - (I like the idea of this as a rectangle, don't really know why) freezes both you and your opponent for 20 seconds - neither can attack in this time. Ideal if you need an opportunity to eat, could also be effective if you're PKing with a clan or fighting in a group. Pretty poor if you're just trying to train though. 2 minute cooldown. Also needs a better name
Masterstroke- (triangle?, active) - 10% chance of any given hit being a max hit for 30 seconds. 2 minute cooldown?
Superpower - (rectangle, active) - 10% chance of any given hit being boosted to 50% higher than what it would've been. 2 minute cooldown?
Ankle aim - (semi circle or ellipse) - kinda like snare but for rangers. Stops your opponent from moving for 10 seconds. Only a 50% chance of success. 30 second cooldown
Wings of fire (circle? or aimed at already light weight weapons?, passive) - reduces a weapon's weight by 5kg. Will allow negative weight
Blessing/Holy Blessing/Divine Blessing/*insert God's name here*'s Blessing - (no idea where to put it, passive) - A series of augments that give varying levels of prayer bonus to weapons when attached
Sturdiness (circle?, passive) - reduces the rate of degradation on all worn items that degrade (such as barrows, crystal etc) by 25% - could this rate vary depending on which substance is degrading - eg, it could be 50% for crystal shields but only 10% for chaotic weaponry? This one would be ideal for training but probably less useful in boss, quest and PVP situations, where a more appropriate augment could go in the slot
Coloured auras - purely cosmetic augments that can be found in treasure trail rewards. Give your weapon particle effects appropriate to the colour in their name

Plenty more to come as I think of them...

Oh, and again, while I remember them, I thought I'd list a few more existing items have similarities to, and could potentially become augments
-The dragonfire shield and the dragonic visage
-Godswords and their hilts
-Ornament kits for dragon armour
-Family crest gauntlets
Discuss...

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 am

I was thinking that purchasing from a specialist would purchase the weapon with full slots, thus, purchasing the Dragon Mace from the store will not punish you. Smile

As for the warning, I don't see why. You cannot trade whilst a weapon is custom augmented, meaning a player will have to remove them (non-custom augments won't be lost by the trade). Players will just have to know that traded weapons won't have as many slots as personally acquired weapons.

I shall rate your augment ideas Grin, Smile, Neutral and Sigh...
Pacify - Grin
Ice envelope - Neutral I'm not sure about the length. Also, Permafrost maybe as a name?
Masterstroke - Smile Effect could be better worded.
Superpower - Smile Not doing anything special the other 90% might make it a bit too hit-or-miss.
Ankle Aim - Smile
Holy Blessing - Smile Perhaps treasure trail reward; one for each god; prayer points + strength/attack/defence boost; circle shaped (fit in any weapon that doesn't already have a circle augment, ie, most high-levelled ones).
Sturdiness - Sigh I'm not sure that we've discussed if an item can have multiple circle slots, and the Barrows' effects would already be circle augments (thus it's use not being that useful).
Coloured auras - Grin

I think we should come to a decision on shields... should they definitely have augment slots? This would mean either making the buttons smaller (running out of room on the panel) or limiting one-handed weapons to a maximum of two slots (two-handed weapons can't be held with shields).

If we're doing shields...

The Dragonic Visage is not a bound augment, but is of a unique shape that it only fits on the anti-dragonfire shield. This is one of few augments that changes the appearance/name of the item it's augmented to (aka, Dragonfire Shield). Wink

A Godsword's Special Attack is a bound augment, bound to the hilt and not the blade.

Ornament kits could be augments, but would probably work best not.
Family Crest gauntlets could use augments, but would probably work best not.






Overkill? Wink

A player may only be afflicted/affected by a maximum of 4 afflictions: two beneficial and two inflicted. Players can right-click to remove boosts, but curses can only be removed in appropriate ways (anti-poison, going out of range of the user, etc). For example, a player afflicted by poison and disease cannot be further affliction. Like-afflictions, the most powerful will take precedence.

These slots only display passive effects by caused by other players. Active effects, such as "Cure Group", and personal effects, such as prayers, will not be displayed here.

An alternative with 6 affliction slots:


Last edited by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:39 am



Duh-dah?! Smile

(A staff of air wouldn't have two custom augment slots, but that's an example of the most possible at any one time... if we go for four maximum, the shield slot could dig into one of the two custom slots).



I think these are all existing, would-be augments...:
Unique, bound augments;
Shock, Sever, Cleave, Shatter, Rampage, Sweep, Clobber, Powerstab, Slice'n'dice, Blighted, Wretched, Infested, Tainted, Corrupted, Defeiled, Smash, Feint, Spear Wall, Miasmic, Phantom, Hamstring, Crack (formally energy drain), 'Rum'ify, Sanctuary, Sanctuary+, Weaken, Impale, Power of Light, Reap, Backstab, Liquefy, Favour of the War God, Saradomin's Lightning, Disrupt, Judgement, Warstrike, Healing blade, Ice cleave, Snap-shot, Chainhit, Soulshot, Restorative shot, Balanced shot, Twin shot, Snipe, Defiance, Descent of Darkness (descent of dragons will be a conditional active) and Aimed shot

Repeating, bound augments;
Quick smash, Shove, Retainer, Powershot and Leaf-blade.

Uniquely-shaped, non-bound augments;
Unique, non-bound augments: Arcane sigil, Divine sigil, Elysian sigil, Spectral sigil, Draconic visage, Saradomin Strike, Claws of Guthix and Flames of Zamorak

Weapons that increase magic damage (existing augment);
Staff of Light (15%), Ahrim's Staff (10%) and Zuriel's Staff (10%)

Weapons that increase magic damage (no current augment);
Chaotic Staff (20%), Ancient Staff (10%), Master Wand (10%), Void Knight Mace (10%) and Gravite Staff (10%)

By "existing augment" and "no current augment" in the last two: the weapons citing "existing augment" are weapons that have a special attack (and thus an augment has already been listed, which the effect can be passive on). The other, "no augment" ones do not have a special attack... thus there is no current special attack name for them to piggyback.

Claws, Flames and Strike should all be non-bound, but uniquely shaped (despite Claws currently being the only one at present (both Guthix and Void Knight)). The only source of the augments would be the staffs (which are non-tradeable), but the augments can also be placed in the books. The augment would still have charges, regardless of if in the staff or book. Smile


Last edited by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Dark Avorian on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:10 am

1. Why should magic damage bonuses on staffs be an augment, instead we should expand the stat to most staves at varying degrees.

2. The big point: Rune should have more augment slots than dragon. Trading an item should strip it down to the minimum number of augments available for that weapon. Maybe, just maybe, non-GE trades should only strip one augment slot. I think rune should ahve more than dragon purely for the benefit of the smithing skill.
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:24 am

Dark Avorian wrote:1. Why should magic damage bonuses on staffs be an augment, instead we should expand the stat to most staves at varying degrees.
My reasoning is simply that similar effects to an increase in magic damage—such as strength, etc—would be augment-based. Thus, why wouldn't magic?

To resolve this altercation, most staffs could come with a basic augment for magic damage, which can be removed in favour of better ones. (I say most, it should probably be all come with *a* magic damage augment with varying power depending on the staff).

Perhaps those staffs mentioned above with special attacks could have two augments when found, one bound (their special attack) and one unbound (for the magic damage)... 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% are separate augments. So the staff of light would be found with two augments, for example, Power of Light Augment (circle) and the Extreme Magic Augment (pentagon)(temp name). You can remove the Extreme Magic Augment and place it on an air staff if you wish. Tongue

2. The big point: Rune should have more augment slots than dragon. Trading an item should strip it down to the minimum number of augments available for that weapon. Maybe, just maybe, non-GE trades should only strip one augment slot. I think rune should ahve more than dragon purely for the benefit of the smithing skill.
At the moment the system rewards players who get it themselves, not necessarily smithers over combat-acquirers. But rune would have more free slots, as dragon's circle slot would be occupied by a bound augment thus not allowing them to use generic augments.

You suggest that all specialised augment slots be lost in GE (possibly only one in direct trade). In that, by paraphrasing, when purchasing on the market weapons will only come with a single, generic augment slot?

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:14 am

Can someone upload a picture of the combat panel for a weapon with a special attack? Please select not to resize it. I'd rather construct an example image that covers all bases, and being a F2P I do not have access to any weapons with a special attack. Tongue


Post 1 has been updated, containing a better written explanation of boosts/curses.

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:17 pm

A few things... First, while I agree with what you're thinking for staff augments, I'm wondering where staffs that already have a magic damage bonus would fit into this? Would these just become augments that are found when the staff is dropped? Can we get away with them being lost through trade, since they aren't lost currently when traded? And will they be bound, or removable?

Second, Permafrost. Thinking about it, you're right. 20 seconds is overpowered. Cut that down to 10 and up the cooldown time to 2:30. That sound a bit better?
I still see this one as being quite powerful in the right situations, so I propose it be a very rare drop from skeletal wyverns and icefiends, as well as a slightly less rare drop from Nex. They all have some associations with ice...

Third, Orbie's posts on the RS forums about his dungeoneering idea got me thinking... how do we fit augments into there? I think I could come up with a system, but I don't have time to get it typed out now

That is all, for now Smile
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:02 am

3mptylord wrote:Perhaps those staffs mentioned above with special attacks could have two augments when found, one bound (their special attack) and one unbound (for the magic damage)... 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% are separate augments. So the staff of light would be found with two augments, for example, Power of Light Augment (circle) and the Extreme Magic Augment (pentagon)(temp name). You can remove the Extreme Magic Augment and place it on an air staff if you wish. Tongue

Waaayyyy ahead of you. Wink

But you pose an interesting question about slot-loss. All current weapons with magic damage are considerable hard to obtain/meant to be powerful, so it's not out of the question that it would have two slots (I'm going to start not including the circle slot in the amount, just fyi). Thus, when it's traded, it only loses one slot and still has room for a magic-damage augment. These magic-damage augments are not bound, and those would class as specialised augments and are not tradeable whilst bound. This would mean that when those items are traded: they will not have their magic damage on them. However, the augment is tradeable and the seller can list both.

Only not to long ago these staffs didn't have magic damage at all, so it's not all that terrible if they don't have magic damage on the fly in some circumstances.

Dark proposed that all specialised slots be lost in trade, and not just one. In this instance, the magic damage (unless you're not against the idea of this being lost in trade) would have to be placed in a bound augment: either the one already on the weapon, like for the Staff of Light, and thus a passive effect and an active "special attack"; or a new augment, such is the case for the Master Wand and Ancient Staff (although, arguably, the Ancient Staff would have one that allows it to cast ancient magics?

In Dungeoneering there could be three slot shapes, Magic, Melee and Ranged (possible split Melee into light and heavy), and possibly a shield slot. These augments would be craftable by the crafting skill and either Magic or Runecrafting (to empower them)(problem is I don't know how augments should be made, but making the decision in Dungeoneering will likely lead to suggestions about them in the rest of the game). The augments would be fairly generic, akin to Prayers I guess... strength, strong strength and extreme strength, etc. They need to be balanced so has not to render potions useless (perhaps augments could only effect damage and speed in dungeoneering, rather than skills).

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:02 am

I agree with most of that... One thing though, I prefer the idea of augments coming from monster drops in dungeoneering. Perhaps the more unique, exciting and less generic ones should come from Slayer drops.

And what happens when you complete dungeoneering with augments on a bound weapon? Keep them all? Lose them all? Get extra binding slots specifically for augments, like the bind slots for ammo/runes?

Just thinking of all possibilities...
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:11 am

Well, I'll let people who've played more Dungeoneering choose that. Wink

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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by Slayer Noir on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:20 am

Does level 75 qualify me to say that so long as weapons only have one slot, it should be fine to keep the augment on bound weapons? I don't think it would lead to any massive overpowering...
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Re: Make Combat More Interactive

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:23 am

Sounds good to me. Wink

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