Game Mechanics

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Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:01 am

First topic message reminder :

So I'm almost entirely bored of RuneScape now, and thought I'd attempt to spark some discussion on pretending we're the developers of a new game. Unlike Pallis, I want mechanics and not content.

First question; classes.

Should they be utilized like classic MMOs, or should it be entirely free? If so, how do we create multiple "best" combinations... I absolutely don't want something that sits at the top and everyone just tries to achieve.

It's hard to suggest things out of context, so feel free to take mechanics unrelated to the current discussion and intertwine them.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Dark Avorian on Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:50 am

Dusk. We have two separate areas to deal with these two separate pieces. It is of course possible that we could in the future think about how they might interweave, but at the moment we are keeping them separate, if you can't manage that, then please refrain from posting on this thread as it might as well be spam.

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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:44 am

What sort of classes/disciplines did we have in mind? Smile

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:43 am

Hate to be Mister Negative, but I think in my perfect game mechanic there would be no preset classes - you said yourself 3mpty, that they restrict gameplay and I agree with that.

One of the things I like about RuneScape is that if they put your mind to it, anyone can do any piece of content regardless of their origins. With preset classes, you would miss out on stuff, and that sucks for the player and wastes developers time...
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:13 am

I wouldn't say it wastes developers time. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 am

Why not?
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:34 am

Well how does it?

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:21 pm

If you're making content that only 50% of people can play due to classes, you've either got to develop double the content (and that takes time) or give your players less to do. Compared to making content that anyone can enjoy eventually, that's a waste of time.
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:29 pm

So many games utilize this system, it's obviously not a problem.

You could argue that the everyone-can-use system is equally a wastes much time. Look at RuneScape, there's content designed for their semi-classes; but everyone's just aspiring for the best combination, thus rendering everything else redundant. At least restricting the three classes would mean that there are three "best combinations". Wink

I'm not saying any method is the best. I would rather some sort of tree system... where you start of "plain" and specialize. But this would inevitably lead to the same locked-class dilemma you pose-- even if people hybrid--because there will be content that is unusable by players at any part of the tree.

You could always create a single class that implements the two main classes. Think Fable... melee is a staple, it's the base. Then you can get ranged weapons and learn spells, but it's not overly viable to just use bows/spells. I said two main classes because ranged is still physical damage, and things that have weaknesses to certain damages types don't distinguish bows from swords.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:08 am

Well, obviously, you're the expert. I still hold my opinion but will accept yours due to your superior knowledge... I hope you'll at least consider the concerns and avoid making hundreds of classes that each restrict the player to 1% of the game.

A tree system sounds good, but perhaps instead of starting plain, you could have a head start of sorts in one discipline - like starting RuneScape with a ranged or magic level of 10? Sound plausible?
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:06 pm

No need to sound so sarcy. I wasn't saying your idea was bad, merely asking how you justify it wastes time. Wink

I like single class systems. I said from the start that I will play Devil's Advocate. I want us to develop something awesome. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:24 pm

Sorry if that came across sarcastic, it wasn't meant to. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can't really justify myself any more: as I said at the start I'm no expert on game mechanics.
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:58 am

You don't need to be an expert. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:28 am

Well, like I say, I still believe restrictive classes are a bad idea. A tree system sounds nice but as I keep saying, I'm a big fan of the "you can do everything if you put your mind to it" approach, so I'd like it if a player can eventually become a master of all classes - perhaps have some mechanism whereby you switch between classes?
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Dragon78114 on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:31 am

I agree with Slayer; I HATE games that restrict your character into a certain class where you can only do a certain thing. The real world doesn't operate that way and it becomes MUCH more cliche and easy to program.

However, starting out and then developing skill later would be excellent.

The tree system shouldn't just be certain trees; they should overlap, and provide mobility from one style to the next, depending on how high you are in the tree.
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by Dark Avorian on Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:20 am

On a sort of dream level, I'd love it if a game could be developed that offered full 3 dimensional fully player malleable land. Then you just introduce land destruction and land creation spells and let a player base loose. It could also be really fun for the admins who would get to shape the land to aid fun.
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:50 pm

Isn't that Minecraft/Terraria? Tongue

(I also dislike class systems.) Another issue with split class systems is that you generally segregate the community... One of the reasons I didn't like WoW in the week I tried it was simply the lack of people in the 'beginner' areas... But that's because there are 10 beginner areas that are fictional miles apart. And even if there happens to be someone else, at no point are you really taught how to use the chat system and they are playing a different class and have predominantly different quests.

Okay, so currently our combat mechanic is a class tree system where you start off in the middle, and some of the branches overlap meaning skills can be shared. Would there ever be enough points to be everything? Or should there be a way to replace the points?

Anyone remember that professions thing we did? We could always just use runescape style skills (strength, ranged, magic, etc) and merely have the trees be bonuses. Melee tree: your attacks ignore 5% of your targets armour (as an example of one of the things on the tree). We could make a restricted class system (tank, bruisers, caster) without actually restricting what combat style/weapons you use... So making iit that you can't have super high damage and super high healing. Smile

Inb4 phone doing some crazy predictive.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by invinible on Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:03 am

I had an idea for system that I though that didn't go too far or not far enough with the class system with a game I wanted to take on RETROmud which I posted at this location which I still want to make.
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Re: Game Mechanics

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:16 am

Wow, that's a lot of classes! Shock

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Game Mechanics

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