The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

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The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Dragon78114 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well? Tongue
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Duskcurse on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:28 am

Hmm, they are apparently going to add double wielding to the game. I think that this feature could be an intresting one, and give a fairly fun playing experience if done correctly

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Slayer Noir on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:32 am

Dual wielding looks so cool. It appears that you can't just have 2 of your favorite weapon too, which is nice. It means people can stop crying over whether the whip vine outclasses the rapier and just use both. More niches are created like this.

I wonder what'll happen to defenders now?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Duskcurse on Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:47 am

I'll guess they'll rework them now, and IIRC, they said htey'll make off-hand offensive items, like orbs
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:22 am

This may result in 2H swords having to be reworked so that the benefits are equal to carrying two weapons (if the bonuses stack).
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Duskcurse on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:33 am

I am looking forward to be able to wield a crossbow and a sword *scream of happiness* Or perhas a sword and throwing knife, or sword and magic orb
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:28 am

I imagine that Defenders will have access to defensive abilities, despite having high offence stats. Tongue

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Dark Avorian on Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:37 am

Wait. One second... If I somehow was a level 200 with only 1 ranging, would I only be able to get ranging xp by training on new 170+ monsters?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:28 am

No, he explicitly said that would not be the case. The reduced experience only applies to the combat skill you are training.

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Dragon78114 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:57 am

^
How? Your combat level determines what you will get xp from. So a guy with 200 cb and 1 ranged can fight a goblin and still get ranged xp (so long as he fights with ranged)?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Slayer Noir on Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:54 pm

Sounds so unnecessary and complicated. Slaying already encourages you to fight a diverse range of monsters. We don't need these restrictions. I don't think they'll make it to the live game
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:43 pm

I think they're just taking a leaf out of most MMOs, where this is a usual restriction that prevents high levels from grinding low level monsters. You get xp based on your damage at the moment, so of you fight something which you can one-hit, there's lots of them and they respawn quickly then it's better xp than a high level that might damage you.

It's not that complicated. Given how simple the combat level is, you can easily work out what you'll get full xp against and what you won't. I'm not sure of defence will factor in that. Otherwise 99 Defence + 1 Ranged is still 100 combat. Maybe it will always be based on the skill level, even your actual combat level?

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Slayer Noir on Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:19 pm

It's still more complicated than just getting xp for everything Tongue

Still, I guess the best thing to do is give it a chance and see how it works. I may be pleasantly surprised.

By the way, have any of us actually gotten access to the beta?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:16 pm

I guess it depends on how many high levels are actually abusing low levelled creatures.

Hopefully the Defence/Lifepoint changes will be significant. Because usually I only feel comfortable fighting 70-90s because I can tank them indefinitely (although there are exceptions). The hit rate of some high level monsters makes them too strenuous to fight against for extended periods of time. If they really want a level 100 monster to feel like you're fighting a level 100 player, then the experience needs to be significantly better.

On a note that I don't think anyone's fully appreciated: untrimmed 99 Slayer will be much easier now, given you get 10% the usual combat experience on lower levelled slayer monsters but this doesn't affect the slayer experience.

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Dragon78114 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:33 am

the yaks are abused like crazy;l they are so much better to train on than experiments.

hm... and the reduced combat xp would inspire me to get it up to 85, but still that warped terrorbird assignment will be made so much harder... -.-
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:02 am

I guess I should kill Rockcrabs for charms while they're still worth xp!

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Dragon78114 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:25 am

Well the beta has been launche. Anyone make it? I know I didn't. Sigh (I would have qualified if I didn't renew the credit-card...oh well)
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:53 pm

All the people I knew who made it to Beta Launch had high combat levels. I was hoping someone with fairly average stats would make it as well.

According to someone who was there, Constitution, Prayer and Summoning are supporting skills and no longer effect combat level. It only takes into consideration defence and the combat skill you're using when calculating combat level. Potions also appear to have been affected; one source tells me that you'll need a specific Constitution level to acquire the full support of food and potions.
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:54 pm

And it lagged. Terribly.
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:07 pm

The overall changes appear to be quite numerous. Sorry I had to copy and paste this, but I didn't have 30 minutes to type it by hand.

General changes to equipment

  • All weapons of the same equipment tier (for example, all rune weapons) will have their stats adjusted in order to have roughly the same damage per second (DPS) value. Slower weapons such as rune spears and rune battleaxes will be as effective in combat as faster weapons such as rune scimitars and rune daggers.
    Two-handed weapons will have a 50% higher DPS than one-handed weapons of the same tier, to compensate for the lack of an off-hand item.
  • Many, if not all, pieces of armour will boost lifepoints, in a similar manner as torva, pernix, and virtus armours. However, the boosts will be much more substantial; players who equip armour sets that are appropriate for their levels will receive as much as 90% of their total lifepoint pool from their armour - more if wielding a shield.
    Therefore, a player with maxed combat stats and the best gear will have about (and between) 15,000 (to 20,000) life points, most of it coming from their armour.
  • The ability to simultaneously wield two one-handed weapons (called "dual-wielding") will be released.
    Special off-hand versions of many existing weapons will be created; these will be separate from existing "main-hand" weapons and will require separate purchase or creation. It will be possible to wield two one-handed weapons of different styles (such as a one-handed sword and a one-handed crossbow; however, it will only be possible to use abilities of the style of weapon that is equipped in the main hand. Dual-wielded weapons will have roughly the same DPS rating as two-handed weapons of the same tiers.
  • All existing magical staves will be changed to be two-handed weapons, which will sacrifice speed for extra damage. New wands
    will be released that act as one-handed staves. Additionally, off-hand
    magical equipment called orbs will be released that allows players to
    dual-wield Magic spells. Another off-hand magical equipment some type of "tome" or "book" was mentioned in Video #6 , but now shown.
  • All melee weapons will be able to train Attack, Strength, and Defence. Mages may choose to gain purely Defence experience.
  • Armour equipped by players will no longer have specific weaknesses to stab, slash, or crush attacks that are made by other players. Monsters will continue to have weaknesses to specific attack types. Additionally, some monsters will have weaknesses to specific Magic spell elements, such as water spells.
  • While it will be possible to switch armour types during combat, doing so will not be recommended as it will incur a significant cooldown penalty to all abilities.

Changes to specific items

  • Magic blastboxes and celestial surgeboxes will provide unlimited air runes in the off-hand slot, rather than their current function of storing runes for combat spells. As both boxes
    will be Dungeoneering-only items, they will be removed from the rest of the game, and any players who purchased them from the rewards trader will have their tokens refunded. However, players will NOT be refunded any runes that are currently stored in any blast or surgeboxes.
  • The Inspiration aura will affect the adrenaline bar instead of the special attack bar.
  • As they are losing their special attacks, all four godswords will be functionally equivalent. However, their stats will be increased to compensate.
  • Barrows equipment and Void Knight equipment will retain their set effects. However, they will only trigger on auto-attacks, not when abilities are used.
  • Enhanced excalibur's current special attack will be added as an ability. The weapon itself will have its stats improved to match those of the abyssal whip.
  • Two-handed crossbows (such as the existing Karil's crossbow) will be added. They will be the Ranged equivalents of two-handed swords. Like many existing crossbows, they will be created using the Smithing and Fletching skills.
  • The ring of kinship's class bonuses while Dungeoneering will be adjusted to fit with the combat update.
  • Much more Ranged and Magic armour will be released. Among others, rangers will receive cockroach armour, and mages will receive spider-silk robes and bat wing robes.
  • A new bow type, called the shield-bow, will be introduced.
    This bow will have lower offensive stats than other bows, but will have
    defensive stats akin to a shield. It will be useful for Ranged tanks.
  • The abyssal vine whip's stats will receive a boost.
  • Untradable potions such as extreme potions and overloads will be usable in the Wilderness.
  • The ring of vigour will allow players to retain 5% of the adrenaline bar after using an ultimate ability, instead of the bar draining to 0%.
  • The existing Bandos armour set, currently consisting of Bandos chestplate, Bandos tassets, and Bandos boots, will be expanded to include a helm, a shield, and gloves. Armadyl armour will be upgraded with gloves and a buckler.
  • Some existing equipment will have its skill requirements adjusted for balancing purposes. For example, rune equipment will require level 50 Attack to wield the weapons and level 50 Defence to wear the armour.
  • Crystal equipment will no longer lose stats as it degrades.[color:6e28=#15f]]source needed]

Changes to combat skills

  • The formula for determining a player's combat level will be changed to be much simpler: it will be X+(Defence level)+2, where X is a player's highest skill level among Attack, Strength, Magic, and Ranged. Consequently, players will start off at combat level 4, and the maximum combat level will be 200. Constitution, Prayer, and Summoning will no longer affect combat levels.
  • The amounts of lifepoints healed by a given piece of food will be tied to a player's Constitution level. For example, a player with 50 Constitution may eat sharks, but will not receive any more lifepoints from them than lobsters.
  • The Defence skill will receive multiple updates to make it more important in combat. Among these upgrades are a range of Defence-related abilities for players wielding a shield (or the equivalent for rangers and mages) as well as very large lifepoints boosts from armour.
  • Two new prayers, Anguish and Torment, will be released for the Ancient Curses. They will act as Ranged and Magic versions of Turmoil, respectively, and all three prayers will unlock at the same Prayer level.
  • Sap and Leech curses have been updated. Leech Special Attack will work on the adrenaline bar instead of the special attack bar.
  • Rigour and Augury will unlock along with Piety. Players who purchased Rigour and/or Augury from the rewards trader at Daemonheim will have their tokens refunded.
  • Rune requirements for spells will change, and on the whole
    will be significantly lower. For example, it will be possible to cast Wind Surge using only air runes, instead of air runes, death runes, and blood runes. Ice Barrage will cost two blood runes and five water runes.
    Rush and Burst spells will use death runes, whereas Blitz and Barrage
    spells will use blood runes. Additionally, only auto-attacks will
    consume ammunition for rangers and runes for mages; abilities will not
    consume ammunition.
  • The spell Energy Transfer will be removed from the game.
  • Slayer training speed will not change significantly.
  • Experience gained when fighting lower-leveled creatures will be significantly reduced. Players who are fighting monsters who have defense 30 levels lower (50 levels lower for higher-leveled players) than the stat the player is using to attack will receive 10% of the
    normal combat experience. Drops and Slayer experience will remain unchanged.

Cosmetic changes

  • Player character models will be updated with more detailed hands, including fingers and thumbs, and more points of articulation among the spine.
  • The ability to sheath weapons and shields will be released. Players will automatically draw their weapons and shields when engaging in combat.
  • Attack animations with all styles will be updated.
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Slayer Noir on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:20 am

So I've been looking at the RS Wiki, gathering information on this update, and I'm afraid to say I'm not as impressed as I thought I'd be

Don't get me wrong, stuff the new magic equipment and the graphics look incredible (the new postures make you seem so much more alive) and all the different abilities to use in combat.

It's just the whole thing seems a tad dumbed-down. And that's not good, because it effectively drops a hot steamy turd on the concept of niches - which I'm very fond of. With the removal of many stats (I've yet to find a weapon that gives a prayer bonus or armour that gives offensive bonuses, for example) along with special attacks, it looks like it'll be so much easier for one item to utterly outclass another and render it useless.
I hope I'm wrong...

Edit: They've also renamed the ancient spells
Ice managed to stay the same, thankfully
Smoke is now Gale
Blood is now Bloodfire
And Shadow is, wait for it...

Wait for it...

Rock.

That's right people. Shadows and rocks are pretty much the same thing in RuneScape. People on the forums are amusing themselves by reciting some of Nex's new phrases, such as "Stare into the Rock" rather than "Stare into the darkness". Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by 3mptylord on Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:32 am

I think it was more so Water, Wind, Fire and Earth runes are required. No offence intended to Shadow. Wink

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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Duskcurse on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:29 am

Wait, how is smoke related to the word Gale? And how is blood to bloodfire? And I hope they change it back shadow, i mean wtf, since when rocks=shadow?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:33 am

That's disappointing.
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:34 am

Ancient magicks were meant to be more powerful, so the rune requirements would be different, indulging the more powerful runes.

Wait, didn't Miasma use earth runes?
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:40 am

This is only the beta stages, so it should be subject to change. I always saw rock and earth as being the same. Shadow sounds far more potent.
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Re: The Anticipated update to the combat system…Opinions?

Post by Slayer Noir on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:37 pm

Miasma is gone. Totally scrapped.

And yes, 3mpty, the reason they state is to being ancient spells in line with the standard elements so that metamorphosis runs smoother, but I mean seriously, isn't it easier to just make 4 new metamorphosis avatars than it is to pass off shadows as rocks?
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