!!No More Duct Tape!!

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!!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dark Avorian on Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:55 am

No More Duct Tape

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Stop it Jublex! Stop putting duct tape on a broken down car and telling us it will work. Frankly I find it insulting. Duct tape is great in some cases, like when said car’s window breaks and you need to patch it up for a coming storm. But it will never, I repeat, never be enough!

Player 1: Has Dark Avorian gone mad? He knows this is Runescape, not a car repair shop, right?

Player 2: I honestly don’t know…

Player 3: Yeah his sanity always has seemed questionable.

Dark Avorian: I’m talking about mage

Crowd: Oooh *gasps* but they just got a brilliant update!

Dark Avorian: As I said: duct tape is never enough.

Player 1: Oh.
After that self indulgent dialogue it’s time to cut to the point, get to the heart of the matter and look at this issue with a focus sight on each eye.

Mage is still underpowered. Jublex has slapped duct tape over a festering wound (Player 3: wasn’t it a car) and said it was fixed. IT IS NOT! 4 spells, a staff, and some small damage increases related to boosts and selected staffs do not an upgrade make. Whatever we do, it cannot be more duct tape! It has to be something stunning, overwhelming, and life changing!

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Why Duct Tape Fails

Recent updates have been an attempt at rectifying the horrible situation of mages. We've had a new level of spells added, a new staff, new strength factors, and a black mask for our own.

This isn't enough!

Hexcrest: Great for us, now we can use magic slightly more effectively in PvE combat, but most monsters have ungodly mage defense + it's more profitable to sue anothe style. DUCT TAPE

Staff of Light: Now the richest among us (and the most talented) have access to this. But that is 1% of a large spectrum. And even so, look at the things stats...they aren't that great...for mages. DUCT TAPE

Surge Spells: Yet again, now the highest levels get spells that are far more expensive per hit WOOT? - I think not. This doesn't help out the rank and file mages, and they aren't that much better. DUCT TAPE

Strength Factors: Pretty good, definitely the least silvery/sticky of the bunch. But to be honest... 10% strength is comparable with steel and iron weapons I believe. Extreme pots don't work in PvP, and even a 9% (or 21% from wolpertinger) is pretty useless. DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!!

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PROBLEMS
1: Stats: Nothing will ever work unless mage has half decent stats, has anyone realized what exactly they are clapping at? +15% strength and +17 accuracy…that’s a steel warhammer! A steel warhammer…(sorta)

2: Specials: Mages have no special attacks except one which a meleer would also be happy to use. Give mages legitimate, mage based, special attacks.

3: Defences: (linked to stats) sure, mages are supposed to be a relatively weak class defence-wise, but look at where that has us.

4: Hybriding: I don’t care about hybriding perse, I just think there should be penalties.

5: Strength: A low level mage has the same strength as a high level one, that’s perverse.

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Simple Solutions
- Improve stats across the board
- Add prayer/mage strength boosts to more items
- Add negative melee boosts to dragonhide
- Give mages legitimate mage-based specials
- Give each spell a set “strength bonus” (display in spell window)
- Use mage as its own strength skill (like range)
- Add defensive spells to a mages arsenal
- Honestly…that’s it…


Last edited by Dark Avorian on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:04 am

Well, that's not it. But it's upgrading duct-tape for a second hand, full working car. It's not flashy, but it's far more reliable. Of course, melee's still a flashy sports-car and Ranged is that built-to-last family car. So on top of a repair, some remodelling wouldn't go a miss. Wink


Last edited by 3mptylord on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dark Avorian on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:11 am

Of course. Simple solutions.
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dark Avorian on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:11 am

I need the QFC's to your threads.

( i mean conjuring, runeless casting, splitting magic, stat bonuses etc etc etc)
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dragon78114 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:20 am

Okay, first off, LOVE the metaphor. At first I thought this wasn't related at all, then I saw the relation.

Next, I don't think the object of the game is to associate yourself with a certain class--i.e. you train your melee skills only and become a warrior, or you train only your mage and defense level to become a mage, and so on. People only do that because it is the way of traditional medieval RPGs.To make a well rounded warrior, you should know a little about each discipline and because of that, you'll become the deadliest dude on the field. If penalties were made for hybrids, then people will have to adjust their characters/stats to certain degrees and classes and become very pissed off, now that Joe, who has 99 in all skills, cannot fight as well.

However, I DO feel that the magic side of the spectrum IS imbalanced, and that duct tape cannot fix the car.
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:25 am

LOL! Most of them died. Sad

Conjuring: 76-77-448-57671393

I'm going to ask for the name to be changed back. Tongue

Stat bonuses are briefly summarized on that thread. I should probably suggest some of my ideas again. Grin

I don't disprove of hybrids when the game supports many classes and style of fighting - like tanks, damage dealers and medics. 'cause when it comes to that sort of system the damage-type you are using isn't important, just the role. Damage dealers are fast and weak, verses Tanks who are slow and powerful. This is the "combat triangle" for most games. However, when you're trying to use a triangle system hybrids don't work. You can't say Magic > Melee > Ranged > Magic then make hybrids. At the moment players indulge is a poor locking system (I'm not asking for it to be fixed-locking, just hybrid-protection). Yes, people will be annoyed if they finally FIX the problem... but they should have never been able to get used to it. When RS2 was first released the triangle was biased toward Magic... they fixed that quickly and Melee has slipped through the exact same crack Magic once did (and no, I mean exact... magic-rune hybrids are exactly the same problem). Yet, instead of fixing it again, Jublex seemed to ignore it and now it's too late to make changes without upsetting people.

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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dragon78114 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:49 am

Here, let me put my idea into context.

A guy can melee, then range, then mage- almost at once! See, Person A starts fighting with melee. Person B switches on a protection prayer. Person A quickly switches to mage and casts a spell on Person B, making him loose prayer points temporarily. Person B then gets out his ranging equipment and starts to defeat Person A. Person A gets out her melee equipment and nearly defeats Person B. Person B gets out his...and so on-NOT well-rounded fight. It becomes repetitive and you become reliant on chance that Person A may hit harder than Person B, and vice versa.

Now what would be cool is when Person A uses a weapon that attacks with TWO styles like a minor magic hit and a major melee hit. While Person B has a shield that deflects most of the Melee hits, and absorbs some of the magic hits on a percentage. Now, Person A could become crafty and may quickly throw something that stuns Person B. However, Person B performed a spell to avoid paralysis, so he did not get hurt and will continue fighting.

If person B forgot to cast a spell to prevent paralysis, he would be clobbered by the mighty force of Person A's weapon. If there was more of a VARIETY of battle choices for every side- particularly magic. If the weapons and spells that they were using were only available to level 99's in their respective skills, and Person B didn't have level 99 in magic, he wouldn't be able to perform, and will loose the battle. The battle is kept being interesting, and that the stakes are super-super-high. If you add in prayer restore potions, food, and This kind of a battle forces you to come up with a strategy, and not always come with only spells because you know you will be clobbered instantly.

You actually CAN say that Magic > Melee > Ranged > Magic and hybridization works because if one wasn't more powerful over the other you can just slash and burn everyone in sight without any real challenge. What I am saying is that the players should be encouraged to avoid the traditional class-system, and you have, well, an exciting game.
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:12 am

Intentionally hyrbidding works... a melee weapon that 20% of the hit is magic, and vice versa for each. That even sounds cool. But just wearing magic-protection and using melee offence doesn't work. What the point in identifying that magic is weak to ranged, and so on, if that means nothing.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Dragon78114 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:29 am

"But just wearing magic-protection and using melee offence doesn't work. "

Correct, that is why every good strategist knows this, unless they want to commit suicide.

All the weaknesses are obstacles in your battle-planning that you must take into account, while sill coming up with a plan that'll provide as much offence as there is defense. Wink They are meant here on purpose as an act of balance, rather than inconvenience. If there was dominance over everything, then things will become way too easy, and a constant struggle for dominance.



Protection prayers are over-used now because a player can ONLY attack with one style per turn. If you spice the battle up, your prayers will be useless and will force you to think. Wink
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by 3mptylord on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:40 am

"But just wearing magic-protection and using melee offence doesn't work. "

Correct, that is why every good strategist knows this, unless they want to commit suicide.

I was being hypothetical... that scenario is how it happens at the moment. Or rather, I mean "doesn't work" as "shouldn't work", in the sense it's wrong. Confuse

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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by TATORZ on Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:32 am

Some good ideas
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

Post by Sir Kandarin on Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:37 am

No more duct tape! *joins with the chant*
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Re: !!No More Duct Tape!!

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