Demonology

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Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:29 am

First topic message reminder :

Demonology is, perhaps, one of the most unique adaptations for a skill I've ever heard - and that's not vain, because it was a joint effort. Wink

But how about we actually suggest it?

I think, at the moment, the key features is a symbol we draw on the ground (with chalk) which determines the shape of the demon we cite (the word we've chosen to mean calling forth a demon, as using the word "summon" would only provoke pro-Summoning comments); whilst an item we place within the symbol is the skin the demon takes on. So... it's almost a times table, skin alone the top, and shapes down the side. But what else? Grin

Key information;
A demon is no more a species than an earthling. A demon is the collective name for any who inhabit a realm known to us as, and how original of us, the Demon Realm. It's true name is unknown to us and, apparently, unpronouncable with our vocal chords (anyway). A demon may appear to speak human, but it isn't technically talking - the words are projected, and so even the deaf may hear them. It is possible for a demon to project its words privately between single persons, but this is uncommon. Whilst on the subject, demons are capable of producing actual sound.

When called, a demon must answer. The contrast is also true, however, magic protect those on Gielinor from being cited - and this has been the case since the World Gate was sealed. Being cited is not required for either party to traverse the void.

Upon "death", the demon is ripped back through the void leaving only the charred remains of whatever skin bound them. It's unknown what occurs but it is assumed they are spared - as the Delrith was able to return. Without dying here: ghosts/spirits are impossible. There is an exception to this, and these are the Revenant Demons. It's unknown how they came to exist, but it's assumed that magical barriers were put in place to prevent their souls from leaving - thus, death was possible. This is cruel. Tormented demons appear to be trapped in a similar state of eternal damnation on Gielinor - but have yet to die.

A demon is not evil (and is fully capable of "good"). However, due to their corrupted appearance, they became feared by humanity and labelled "demons". Demons despise humanity for this. There is also a level of resent between demons and humans - demons feel that humanity was favoured somewhere along the line. Demons who can get away with being human usually do so.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Demonology

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:26 am

I grow bored of this conversation.




































































I am still right by the way.

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Re: Demonology

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:29 am

On the flip side, you could group the skills still as Summoning, as you would group together attack, defence, strength, magic and range as combat skills. That's what I've been trying to tell you.
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:43 am

No, what you're suggesting is Crafting but with the subheadings "Divination", "Demonology" and "Necromancy"... yet you failed to give a good enough reason for why they shouldn't be standalone skills, especially compared to other comparable skills.

What I suggested being similar to Combat level is merely a blanket skill... which is currently unused for anything else ingame. Many players have suggested a Survival Skill which groups the non-combat skills in a similar fashion (for players who don't combat, or feel that their survival skill is something that they'd rather have next to their name for players to see). Summoning in this sense would be something attached to the combat level to distinguish how much of a foe you may be in combat.

In the skill panel, I don't know whether they'd be shown under one icon or not. It seems unnecessary as all would have their own skill guide and having to navigate through two menus is unnecessary. Possibly have a single row at the bottom which is fixed, with the header "Summoning" and the contained skill. The scroll for the other skills would go behind it.

<~>

There's been a suggestion for combo-capes, which I liked. I can't remember the exact combos, but;
• The Gatherer's Cape - 99 Mining, 99 Woodcutting and 99 Fishing.
• The Workman's Cape - 99 Smithing, 99 Crafting and 99 Cooking.
• The Warlord's Cape - 99 in All Combat Skills.
• The Marksman's Cape - 99 Ranged, 99 Fletching, 99 Defence and 99 Constitution.
• The Warlock's Cape - 99 Magic, 99 Runecrafting, 99 Defence and 99 Constitution.
• The Warrior's Cape - 99 Attack, 99 Strength, 99 Defence and 99 Constitution.

You could have the Summoner's Cape - 99 Divination, 99 Demonology and 99 Necromancy. Wink

EDIT: I think Fletching and Runecrafing were in the Worksman's Cape actually. Or, Fletching was. Runecrafting may have been in the Gatherer's Cape.


Last edited by 3mptylord on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:22 am

I take it neither of us is going to see eye to on this. Very well, I'll stick to what I think on this subject and you stick to what you believe. I will agree on an intermediate however.


Last edited by MorbiusMonster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Attaching the signature. Is there not some option that can be done to ensure it is always on even when you quick reply?)
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:30 am

If we're suggesting a skill it is kinda important to agree on whether it's a skill or not. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:01 am

Let's just say the Demonology is a skill of its own, but could be mistaken for or being part of Summoning, and therefore means that the current skill of Summoning would have to be renamed something like Divination or Spiritualism. However, the collective name for those skills would be summoning, to generalize and clear up any problems, and probably they'd be merged if issues persisted.
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:25 am

Jagex wouldn't merge it no matter how many complaints there were.

In fact, there would be more complaints if it was merged - for similar reasons as why the original Pest Control was complained about. The method Demonology is trained would completely undermine Summoning - it's not easier, but not requiring to collect charms/shards makes it different. Players would find it unfair that players no longer have to collect charms in order to level - or even really make anything. Tongue

I don't think the fact the word "summon" could be used; I summoned a demon, isn't a good enough reason. I use craft in conjunction with smithing, sometimes. Attack and Strength are good examples of poor names for skills. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Sir Kandarin on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:35 am

Fully support!

The combo-cape idea up a few posts is neat as well.
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:25 am

Handeath wrote:We could combine Demonology into a huge Summoning update:
Voodoo
Necromancy
Demonology

Zoantropy (?) is up there too.

Pfft, separate skills boiii! Tongue

But yes, Demonology is quite a rounded off suggestion... it's simple enough that even if there isn't a written copy it shouldn't be too hard to pull off. Smile

Handeath wrote:I don't really see those as seperate skills, you are after all bringing beings from another realm into your own. They're like Spellbooks in my opinion. (Demons are high-risk, high-reward, or stat reductions. Voodoo is more defense based, and Necromancy is based more on more summons at once.)

How goes Pallis? And HA would be the trump card in our showcase.

*sigh* You're probably right. Within the confines of RuneScape they probably would do well as a Summoning expansion... but they train and feature nothing likely Summoning. Demonology doesn't use summoning points, shards, pouches, obelisks, etc. I mean, it could, but then demons are pretty much just new familiars - and now it's a completely different suggestion. And if we don't use anything that currently features in Summoning, and thus Jagex is putting all the effort in anyway, why not put it under another name entirely? It's not like it's more or less effort. There as separate as Melee, Ranged and Magic... three different styles of the same thing. Voodoo is entirely different, it would feature under Magic surely (if we're going for as fewer skills as possible)?

Rambling again. Sigh

I'm not sure Pallis is anywhere near showcasing. Perhaps we just advertise this forum, and that be a goodie they find when they come here. But Homecoming Apocalypse is definitely plausible... but I fear we're talking a LOT of posts. Shame I can't do the lock-then-post method that you see some Greens doing... Wink

Shame RuneScape doesn't have any combo-skills other than Combat. Something like Summoning would be an umbrella, and then there would be the subset... although, Mysticism or something would encompass things like Zoanthropy and Voodoo better then "Summoning".

Mysticism - Level 20
- - Demonology - Level 10
- - Necromancy - Level 1
- - Summoning - Level 55
- - Voodoo - Level 2
- - Zoanthropy - Level 36

So there'd only be one button on the interface, but it has a subset of skills - each fully trainable. Although, that possibly wouldn't work. Level 20 Mysticism is hiding that level 55 quite a bit... perhaps ((highest)*9 + sum(others))/10 = 37? Or it could just display the highest. Although, regarding the current combat level, that's essentially how pures work. Smile

Wow... I really do ramble/go on tangents really easily. Confuse

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Duskcurse on Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:49 am

Wasn't voodoo my idea?
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:18 am

I have no idea, Handeath just mentioned it. For how I imagine voodoo, I'm not sure how it fits in a summoning-esque super-skill. It's herblore or magic or something. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Duskcurse on Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:31 am

It's a "mix" Wink
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:23 am

Pfft. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Handeath on Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:16 am

My idea for Voodoo is that you bind tibal spirits to objects (dolls, armor, maybe even potions) Doing so creates a void-of-a-familiar, it absorbs attacks and uses them in various ways.

For example,
Nocturne Doll reflects damage.
Volcanic Mask causes Burn damage
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:33 am

Broodoo Smile

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Handeath on Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:36 am

Broodoo is another example, the masks can reduce the target's Melee Stats when struck.
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:31 pm

Tongue

Anyway. Combine them... really? Cry

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Ruy112 on Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:59 pm

How will demonology not be far more convenient than Summoning, when it comes to combat familiars? Who'd bother with charms, pouches, second ingredient and such, when demonology is much easier?
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Re: Demonology

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:34 pm

Demons will require different requirements when it comes to citing them from their dimension. Let's just say it might not be for the faint of heart as extending their physical presence will mean deriving from your own.
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Re: Demonology

Post by Ruy112 on Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:03 pm

Great idea... Now something we can use for something...
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Re: Demonology

Post by Duskcurse on Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:37 pm

Yeah kinda you'll need to give some points of life too keep em up, and feed him up bones
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:37 am

Ruy112 wrote:How will demonology not be far more convenient than Summoning, when it comes to combat familiars? Who'd bother with charms, pouches, second ingredient and such, when demonology is much easier?

When you put it that way, I don't think it matters whether it's part of Summoning or not. Tongue

Although, unlike Summoning, Demonology requires other skills to use. It's almost a reward-skill. It can be trained without other skills, flesh-demons, but a demon's various skins (that make them stronger) require other skills and alter their combat. But I guess it only really requires one other skill... smithing, woodcutting, etc, it doesn't so much require all of them. But there is a double requirement... it's Demonology level 20 + Smithing level 20 to use Mithril Demons, so even though all other skills have head a head start it doesn't make demonology any easier to train from the off-set.

Dusk proposes an interesting point (except the bones part, that's just lame)... perhaps demonology could consume health?

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Handeath on Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:31 am

How about we make a contract using a stylus (the secondary, and the "skin") on the parchment (a charm or actual paper) at a "rift" (a summoning "pentagram"). To actually summon the demon, we need to sign it with our blood (the higher leveled the demon, the higher percent you have to give).

I feel like your justification of this being a skill comes from the components (you can use other skills for combat levels!). If that were taken away, this would be Summoning, hence why I think this works better as an expansion.
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Re: Demonology

Post by 3mptylord on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:00 am

It's an interesting ploy that having a demon could permanently lower your constitution, would be a control of sorts. Smile

The demons themselves differ like an array of weapons.

To cite a demon you must scribe a symbol into the floor, then place the skin-catalyst in the centre. It's possible that citation sites could be specific grounds, rather than any patch of ground...

With respect to existing demons, "Pilot" are similar to imps (although wingless); and the Ifrit, Hunter and Wight forms aren't dissimilar to lesser/greater/black demons. I'd rather no use existing demons purely so there is nothing to compare their levels too... as a Demonology Black Demon would never be as powerful as a Black Demon, also, the skin colour itself it decided by the skin-catalyst.

Also, no. We probably won't agree.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Demonology

Post by Handeath on Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:45 am

Can we just suggest Demonology as a Skill and an Expansion?

Anyway, I had some more ideas about Broodoo (what Voodoo is called in game). Mediums add Absorbtion bonuses to you (the higher level, the greater the bonus). However, the damage they absorb is dealt to them. On the other hand, for every X damage they take (about 1/20 of their total health) they will use their Release (a status effect, damage, maybe even a buff. Upon their death, or dismissal, they will use their Burst: a more powerful version of the effect, or maybe a different one.

Some new Mediums (Morby can help here) - Release, Burst:

Monoliths - these guys have the highest defence among Mediums, however, they move and attack slowly.
- Scapegoat - Greater Absorption, Restores Prayer

Dolls - High Attack Speed and Accuracy, but they have low defence
- Curse - Recoils damage, Reduces enemy stats

Masks - Well rounded
- Swarm - Poison, Increases Attack Speed

Unclassified Mediums
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Re: Demonology

Post by Dark Avorian on Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:48 am

Yeah, just say, either this is a skill or it's an expansion, and then just give levels.
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Re: Demonology

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