Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

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Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:06 am

First topic message reminder :

I've changed the title of the thread because the apostrophe wouldn't behave.

The twelve labours, inspired by both mythology and our unofficial mascot Dark Sylvania;

Nemean lionNemyonGuantletsWritten by Jeeves.
Lernaean hydraLernosDiademWritten by Jeeves.
Cerinean hindCerinaHelm
Erymanthian boarErymontAxe-hammerWritten by Jeeves.
Augean stablesAugoHelmWritten by Trixtor.
Stymphalian birdsStympho
Creten bullCretosMace
Mares of DiomedesTrace
Shield of HippolytaHippolytaRising Sun
Cattle of GeryonGeryon
Apples of the HesperidesLadonGolden Apple
CerberusCerberusStaff/Whip



Timeline of the Mythics' Quest;
• Grandeur, the gateway to the Mythics' Guild, must be appeased. The requirements for this section are merely the skill requirements for the quest, having completed the Legends' Quest and having a certain number of quest points. The plinth that Grandeur stands on has three icons connected by rivulets. You need them all to light up.
• Through the gateway you can see the image above, basically. Only, the warrior is also a statue and facing the other way. These thirteen statues are, in effect, Hercules and the twelve labours. Accompanying them is a fourth character, imposing as a thirteenth labour - Durial, our antagonist.
• "Herclues" will introduce the labours, and what they are for. It should be noted that the labours themselves, and Herclues, are irrelevant to the quest at the moment. Players can complete them now or later. It should also be noted that Hercules does not mention Durial, our 13th Labour. Trying to make him stick out.
• Each labour would be based on the labours from Greek Mythology. This is the guild of Mythics after all, and Greek wouldn't be the only source when we finally have access to the guild. "Completing a labour" involves retrieving a lost relic that has been hidden in your time. These tasks take place in both RuneScape, and bespoke instances.
• Durial requires three items; the Blades of Eleyon, the Cloak of Shadows and the Potion of Vulnerability. Each item will require utmost knowledge of RuneScape, as no requirements are officially given. This quest may seem long - but the labours aren't required at this point.
• After obtaining all three items for Durial he will exit the guild - returning to his own time. In the same cinematic, future-you will arrive; panting hysterically and cursing that he took too long (mentioning something about other future-yous and how he failed to improve... which you will also say).
• Future-you, though you don't know it yet, will tell you what you need to do next; which of the three labours you should complete. You require the Rising Sun, the Hydra's Diadem, and something defensive to counter the Blades of Eleyon. Future-you will also tell you what Durial's true intentions are.
• After having obtained these, your next mission is to activate the Chronarch's Throne, an altar capable of reversing the flow of time within the guild. *insert more on this segment*.
• Successfully rewinding time, you most exit the guild into the past and locate Durial. The fight will be epic... think Nomad, just harder (or perhaps not, Dark's still killing himself trying to kill Nomad). During this fight Durial will accuse you of being Guthix, among other interesting foods-of-thought.
• Return to the guild and fast-forward to the present. On your way to Grandeur, to speak with your future-self, you will notice two omens - Durial and yourself. Panicking, you run forward to try and stop yourself handing Durial the items. You will, of course, fail... and, well, you can probably see where I'm going.
• This segment is surprisingly easy, merely tell your past-you what to do.

The quest needs to end somewhere. Possibly when you exit the Guild and Grandeur's gargoyles will laugh at you, seemingly aware of you you'd just done. Or... the moment you return to the present it's quest-over, with aiding past-you merely being a required postal-script. I suppose that's the only issue with having a quest with no true questmaster.

February 14th, 2010;
Spoiler:
Passed the Flames of Lloigh-enn, is the pathway to the Guild of Mythics. By now you have already passed through Grandeur, the great archway. Durial stands blockading at the end of the guarded walkway.

Durial appears to be one of 13 statues that line the pathway to the Guild. Players may complete all or none of the 12 statues before Durial. Durial requires a potion, a blade and a cloak obtained from yet-to-be-decided locations. Three of the twelve statues will prove useful for the later part of the quest, so if you do them before Durial it will save time doing them afterwards. After having collected Durial's items, he will leave to his own time and our futureself will become the obstruction to the guild. If you haven't already done the required labours, our futureself will tell us which to do.

*insert timetravel section*
February 13th, 2010;
Spoiler:
Thus far we'd only actually come up with guildlore and items we wished to include in the quest. The actual layout for how/why the items were obtained kept changing so Jeeves and I didn't feel bad coming up with a new reasoning. The following also adds an actual guild-set requirement for entry of which there wasn't one before hand.

The Mythics' Guild refers to the entirety of the area within the guild, excluding the path. In that, not specifically a building. This comment here is purely so we have some fixed terminology.

The path between the gate and the guild exists out of sync - almost in real-time, but almost in guild-time. Aligning the path are twelve statues; twelve unique statues. These statues represent the Labours (based on Greek Mythology). All Mythics must complete the Labours in order to enter the guild. Durial stands at the end of the path, observing our progress and awaiting the time that we finish the trials and become useful to him (for until we can actually enter the guild, we can't interact with him beyond words - not good when he needs items from us). Why us? Imagine that scene in films where the main character is nearly still in the centre of focus and life is just zooming passed? That was Durial until he saw us. Something about us stuck out.

Though not accurate with the loading screen, a thirteenth statue stands in the middle of the path immediately when you enter. This statue will introduce you to the Labours. He will inform you that something has been removed from each of the statues and places in your time and it is your task to recover it - Guarding each piece is an avatar of the statue. Once you have recovered all twelve items, you move on to Durial (the thirteenth labour as far as we're concern) - "My missing pieces will require... more creativity." The Rising Sun could easily be one of the artefacts we collect in the first part.

Players should note that the centre statue does not mention a 13th. Our futureselves will replace Durial as a roadblock to the guild. What's required to traverse time is still to be decided.

Any of this could be rearranged. I proposed that each of the twelve items could be a reward - but I then thought that it might be more interesting if that was optional, something post-quest. Or is RFD a good theme? Are twelve relics too many to be a required part of the quest?
October 1st, 2009;
Spoiler:
Durial wants to stop Guthix from remodelling the world into Gielinor, which inevitably destroys all that Durial holds dear. Unknowing of the task, we aid Durial in collecting three items - believing this was the initiation to the Mythics' Guild - the blade of Eleyon, the cloak of Shadows and the Vulnerability Potion (made from the bloodyield, pure ectoplasm and an un-chosen solid that would reflect upon the mind in some way - boiled in hellfire and bathed in starlight).

Upon giving Durial these items, he exists the guild. Of course, Durial was not from our time and left the guild into the 0th Age. As there were no repercussions of our actions, it is to be assumed that was succeeded in rectifying what we've done. However, that's just the optimists way of looking at things. In the present, we haven't yet done anything. But we are not alone. During the second part of the quest wherein we must collect countermeasures to our previous toils, the main personality is our future-self - however, we don't learn this until later, either. The only decided item that we would require to collect was the Rising Sun.

After obtaining these items, we are then required to return to the past in order to fight Durial and prevent him from succeeding. To do this, we must unlock the chamber of fate that resides in the centre of the guild. The guildmasters, the wraiths, will not help you and you will only have the aid of your futureself. He instructs you that their is one additional item that you require, and one that you have held before - the Enchanted Key. To activate the key within the chamber of fate, three present-tense Mythics must stand about the plinth and will it to work - ourselves being one, we must convince the another two to help us. I think the Wise Old Man was decided as one of said Mythics, it's possible that Bob the Cat could be our second (and the hint towards this would be Robert the Strong having a chin wag with us during the quest).

Within the past, some epic fight must occur. Durial will believe us to be Guthix, having traversed time, and will fight us over that though. At one point he will claim that even if we are not Guthix now, we will become "Guthix". Success is required to further the quest, but death applies as with any quest. After defeating Durial we hear a voice echo within our head - to be speculated as Guthix.

Your quest is over. However, there is an additional segment to the quest (sort of like the wish list) where we can aid our past selves complete the quest. This is required so has to keep the flow of time in flux - as we were helped by ourselves, we must return the favour.



Last edited by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:28 am; edited 25 times in total

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dragon78114 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Honestly, I think everyone here is over-thinking it.

Everyone has their own opinions and unfortunately, no consensus has been made... I honestly think we should stick with something simple, to avoid even more, pointless conflict in the time when we can have this FINISHED. -.-


EDIT: I honestly feel this thread should be closed, and a new forum devoted to ALL of the topics addressed to have an individual thread. That will be SO much easier to handle because we're switching back and forth from topic to topic in no apparent order, and it is SO confusing to follow, and honestly I think this is why we're so damn confused and angry!

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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:50 pm

Dragon78114 wrote:Um... That's how I imagined the Mythic's Guild entrance... That there are only the statues of Heracles' labors. You might want to improve your description. Wink Honestly, there probably are people more mythical than Heracles.

I think I choose Heracles solely because Dark Silvania was releasing his labour pictures at the time. I love how I've got everyone calling him "Heracles". It's a greek myth, yet his romanized name "Hercules" is more common. Wink

Also, Heracles' labors are the only statues at the entrance. You're imagining correctly. But there is plenty of outside.



That was the inspiration to the guild entrance... the gate doesn't lead onto a structure. There were suppose to be relics scattered throughout the guild... on the lawns, in fountains, lining the hallways of the building, etc. Tongue

Also, about Durial's origin. How about him being a legend who recently elevated to status of Myth because he protected his people from annihilation. Upon entering the guild, he realizes that it is time that his people will die out, and Guthix comes in and rebuilds the place. Misinterpreting this evidence, he thinks Guthix is the one who destroyed his home, whereas in actuality, his people killed themselves off with plagues and wars. Guthix is merely trying to restore life, but feeling heroic and mythic, he decides to take on the god. There, he waits around for someone rather foolish, but at the same time extremely powerful. And thus, with time, you arrive, and Durial takes advantage of you.

That's sort of what already happens... kinda. We don't know his achievements, although I don't think we need to know why he's a myth. Within the guild he learns of his people's downfall, and hearing of how Guthix created the world he assumes him to have been the destroyer of his world. He waits around for a gullible hero to aid him, as he has no idea how to quell a god.

Also, just one thing I noticed. Before you enter the guild proper, Durial stops you. That won't make sense since the way the Guild has been recently described, the Entrance is in YOUR time, whereas the actual guild exists in ALL time. The only way Durial can contact you would be, therefore, in the Guild. So perhaps, he meets you in the relic room, and that would also make sense if we move all of the statues inside there as well.

The guild is everything beyond the gate... everything within the guild is in guild time, including the pathway. The "guild" encompasses the entire grounds, not just the building. Tongue

Jeeves wrote:The whole Guild walkway thing always threw me off...I think we had it worked out to where time "flowed" sort of like it does normally, so that people can come and go in their own time, but that time doesn't "pass" so that Durial *could* conceivably sit and wait for everyone to pass him by.

Aahhh. Yeah, since there is no time in the guild everyone would enter the guild at once... so the pathway was made somewhat out of sync. You know, we could just use poetic license here. Or, the guild exists in a separate time... going for a Narnia effect. The guild can be accessed throughout time, but there is a separate time within the guild which happens infinitely faster than realtime. Thus, if someone entered the guild 10,000 years ago from when you entered, there's only a 5 minute difference within the guild. Pfft, I don't think we really need to explain this bit. We could just gloss over it... again, poetic license. Wink

-1) WHO IS DURIAL?
A hero in his own time who entered the Guild right before his world was destroyed in hopes of permanently delaying it until he could find a way to defeat the god or set things straight some other way

-2) WHY DOES HE NEED OUR HELP?
Over countless millennia, he has gathered enough information from passing legends to start formulating a way to beat Guthix. We're just the first adventurer who's willing to help him out.

-3) WHAT ROLE DOES THE GUILD PLAY IN ALL THIS?
The Guild is a collection, of sorts, of legends from across time and space. It could be useful as a secondary objective, but it's really just utilized in the main quest to go through time.

Good. Although I've given myself something to overthink about... you can tell me to overlook it if you think it's not worth thinking about. Guthix built the world on a barren plain... so if Durial's world was there then Guthix was actually being evil. Although I still think it's farfetched that Durial got into the guild perfectly before, there should be some period of difference. But then, surely the world was in ruin and not worth saving... so why would Durial go through all the fuss? Confuse

Wait a minute, economic truth. He never specified when. When he found the world it might have been barren, but that doesn't mean it was at the beginning of the first age. Etch-a-sketch theory... maybe he gave the previous world the same warning "I'll start again if you don't stop fighting" (eventually he's got to take the hint that fighting will happen Tongue). Regardless or not of if you agree with the etch-a-sketch theory, I'm going to use it to satisfy my overthinking. Guthix could have turned up during a God War of sorts, and initiated the banhammer. Durial ran to the only place he knew... Smile

Surely there must have been other Mythics' in his time? No 3mpty... *slaps*.


EDIT: I honestly feel this thread should be closed, and a new forum devoted to ALL of the topics addressed to have an individual thread. That will be SO much easier to handle because we're switching back and forth from topic to topic in no apparent order, and it is SO confusing to follow, and honestly I think this is why we're so damn confused and angry!

You keep saying that, and I probably will do it. But I'm confused as to what you're on about. There's only one thread, plus the one where we're dumping the complete thing. There's no jumping back and forth, it's all happening here. This is the sole and only location of discussion, the other thread is locked and only has like two posts of content in it.

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:12 pm

Should we start a new discussion thread, so everyone can be at the same speed?

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:31 pm

I think Durial would go through with the whole thing regardless of whether or not there was anything left to save. He's crazy enough to fight a god, he's crazy enough to try and save a dead world.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:58 am

Probably. Wink

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:12 am

See, the hardest part of writing a quest involving time is that some players will intentionally try to break the causality loop... damn miscreants. Limits us to factors we can control. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dragon78114 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:43 am

3mpty, can you lock this?
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Handeath on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:44 am

But first, use your admin powers to cut and paste the labors into their own threads!
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Ruy112 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:48 am

Idea, what if we leave the guild without telling ourselves to stop Durial, another omen will appear telling us to tell us to stop Durial? Tongue
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Dragon78114 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:05 am

keeping everything inside the guild won't destroy the fabric of time and space, no matter how wrinkled it may be.
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:06 am

Dragon78114 wrote:keeping everything inside the guild won't destroy the fabric of time and space, no matter how wrinkled it may be.

Hm?

Also, we could just use game-logic (similar to Recipe for Disaster). Everything functions as it should (with no paradox-related end of the universe) but, inevitably, your character will do it inevitably. You may not have done it yet, but in the scheme of things it happens (even if you log off and never log on again, it will wait for you to do it).

Thus, not telling yourself to stop Durial doesn't mean it won't happen. Although, if we make it so the quest isn't complete until you do it adds a bit of linear-control. Twisted Evil

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by Jeeves on Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:46 am

Yup, I figure that if people try to intentionally stop time from working, the quest just won't continue. Since we have control over time, we can just say that the events will eventually happen. You can enter and the leave the Guild as many times as you like and do nothing at all, but that *one* time you actually do the right thing is the time that you witnessed earlier in the quest. Tongue
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Re: Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

Post by 3mptylord on Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:21 am

That's why I had it so they couldn't f*ck up the dialogue... if they don't perform the quest in a linear fashion, it will just blackscreen with no function port-key style time travel. Tongue

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If all good things come to an end then we're living in a world where evil wins. 

If there once was love then maybe something survived. If we find a single diamond in the rough then it's worth it. Through a thousand tears if there's one drop of love then it's worth it. 
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