[Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

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[Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Sun May 01, 2011 1:14 pm

I found it... odd.

It was never really explained how the Silence were villains, so I found it very out of character for the Doctor to just declare their execution. He said they'd been here for thousands of years, influencing us, etc, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Is it?

Also, and if past Doctor Who seasons haven't taught me anything, the blatant paradox in the episode is yet to be resolved. For example, the Vampires of Venice said "we ran from the silence" and such. Surely this has still to happen? And I think at the end of the last series someone said "But why did the Tardis explode in the first place?" so I'm guessing it'll all be resolved. Smile

Also, I've noticed, how come whenever something bad "falls" (like silence, darkness, etc) it means to descend or to come down on us. Whilst when something good "falls" it usually means defeated... the hero falls, the light will fall, etc. Tongue


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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Sun May 01, 2011 4:02 pm

Hmm..? Sorry, I looked away.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Tue May 03, 2011 6:31 am

Tongue

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Jeeves on Tue May 03, 2011 10:55 am

Well, the Doctor didn't really order their execution, the way I see it...I mean, he basically left it up to the Silence whether or not they would kill themselves. It's either "stay here and get yourselves killed by the people" or "go away and just never come back." If the Silence choose to stay, it's their own fault they get killed. Tongue

And there's probably a bunch of them all throughout time, which is why the vampire chicks in Venice could have fled them.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Tue May 03, 2011 11:13 am

Whether or not he gave them a choice doesn't really change the fact he had no reason to confront them. Also, he made the point earlier in the episode (or the previous one) that they use our technology... How was he expexcting them to leave? He even asked, or Amy asked, what's the deal with the moon?

He shot first and didn't ask questions later. Tongue

Judging by the fact that girl is part time lord, and that the machine is a proto-tardis, I think it'd be ironic if the silence were some sort of left over time lords clutching for salvation and the doctor just executed them unknowingly. Twisted Evil

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Wed May 04, 2011 10:59 am

Assuming Amy Pond had seen the moon landing prior to 2011, Dark has found a flaw/Chekhov's Gun.

Amy had no desire to kill the Silent she saw in the Impossible Astronaut, in 2011. Note that the events of the Day of the Moon happened in 1969, the message to kill the Silence was already in circulation. But regardless, whether or not that fact Amy had no desire to kill it... the fact remains, it's not dead. There is a Silent in 2011. This is something I so easily glazed over. Did the message not work? We saw people looking at the Silence angrily... but surely the Silence can override their commands as easily as they gave them? It's not like the message said "Kill us on sight, ignore other commands". Or was this Silent a ninja? More to the point... why was he there in 2011? Was he trying to kill the Doctor before he had them executed not realising it was an older him?


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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Wed May 04, 2011 11:10 am

Timeline of events (from the Doctor's perspective):

2010 - The Lodger, and the half-finished TARDIS (which the Silence are seen using in the Day of the Moon)
2010 - The Pandorica and the Big Bang
2011 - Amy and Rory are seen absent of the Doctor, apparently he left them
a) Because the Doctor received a letter, and didn't take them with him.
b) They decided to, and he received the letter some time later.
2011 - Doctor comes out of the bathroom surprised to see them.
1969 - The events of the Impossible Astronaut and the Day of the Moon.
• UNKNOWN
2011 (although he is 200 years older) - The Doctor is running, and contacts the aforementioned Amy and Rory (among others). From Amy and Rory's perspective, they believe it is their Doctor contacting them.
2011 - The Doctor dies.

Other things...
• The reason the TARDIS exploded, which was the central plot of the Pandorica season.
• Other races across the universe know of the Silence, and the silence are related to the cracks and this the TARDIS exploding.
• Why were the Silence building a TARDIS (or "growing", as previous Doctors have referred to it as)? And how?
• Where did the half-finished TARDIS go after The Lodger (which is the chronologically last time it's been seen, or though the first time the Doctor encountered it)? It's assuming the Silence abandoned it or lost it, as they didn't seem to feature (at least subliminally)... although it did move from the US to the UK between 1969 and 2010. More to the point, why didn't the Doctor care to ask this? He even made the point that he'd seen it before.
• River Song believes she's seen him for the last time, or believes that this is the last time she's seen him and he knows who she is. We know this is inaccurate, as she has yet to be given the Doctor's Screwdriver (an important plot device surrounding her final hour in the library, when she does actually meet a version of him who doesn't know her).

Why is the older Doctor seen running?
Who is River Song?
Is Amy pregnant? No? Mystery third option "Temporal position unknown"? Mystery fourth option "Post-pregnancy"/"Recently birthed".
Who is the child?
What did the Silence want with Amy? They said "You will bring the silence. But your part will soon be over." and I swear they said something about completing the cycle/circle. Perhaps they were making her baby part time lord?



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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Dark Avorian on Wed May 04, 2011 11:17 am

River Song also mentioned what one could do with a single timelord cell. I think the silence are some timelord's last hope to resurrect their culture.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 am

Here's him declaring them villains;
"You've been interfering in human history for thousands of years. People have suffered and died."

Prove it. Haha, unnecessarily aggressive to poetic license. Wink The beauty of this villain is they can be dubbed into any story. But you can't prove they weren't meant to be there/what they were doing wasn't part of the greater good of time. Meh, I'll let them be villains. They are obviously malicious. And hints from the previous series like "We ran from the silence"... but I still think the episode didn't make it obvious enough. Tongue



216 —— "The Doctor's Wife" —— 2.3 —— 1 episode —— Neil Gaiman —— Richard Clark —— 14 May 2011

We're gonna find out soon. Smile




It's just occurred to me. The Doctor was not the "last time lord" prior to Christopher Eccleston, who apparently ended the Time War and created the time lock. There could be any number of survivors, realistically. Although the Doctor says he could sense them, the Master evaded this. Of course, and to the quote the Professor, "[we're] not thinking fourth dimensionally!" Even if the Master was in human form in the year 100trillion, he's a timelord in the year 2008/2009. I don't think the Doctor's timelord-sensor is that good. Wink

"It's easy really..."

Implying the child is in AT LEAST her second form when we see her, as she knows how dying works. Tongue

The Doctor only had one form left after this one, didn't he?

Regenerations;
William Hartnell
1st) Patrick Troughton
2nd) Jon Pertwee
3rd) Tom Baker
4th) Peter Davison
5th) Colin Baker
6th) Sylvester McCoy
7th) Paul McGann
8th) Christopher Eccleston
9th and 10th) David Tennant
11th) Matt Smith
12th) Doesn't happen, apparently. Thus far he dies, dead at 11... and he was so close to dying anyway! Wink

Perhaps they are going to bring back the Valeyard character as a villain for the female Doctor Who (the little girl)? The original Valeyard was a corrupted Doctor from between his 12th and 13th incarnation, although I'm not sure if this was suppose to be literal or something similar to the Watcher (from the fourth-fifth Doctor) and the Dream Lord.

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Thu May 05, 2011 6:18 am

I originally came up with a theory as to what caused the TARDIS to explode in "The Pandorica Opens". Looking back it now, only two of the the originaly four theories still seemed plausible.

1. The Time Lords - Previous encounters and adventures have shown that the Time Lords have a capability of manipulating the TARDIS remotely. My theory was, the Time Lords, notably those in following of Rassilon and were driven by the idea of the "Final Sanction", would have sought to the destruction of time itself (End of Time), but could not achieve it within the time lock. However, a TARDIS exploding would penetrate all areas of time and slowly, but surely cause the end of all things.

The theory was that the Time Lock that prevented the Time War being accessed via Time Travel would also have been breached, allowing some Time Lords to escape from the end and re-establish a foothold in what remained of reality. With the Doctor incarcerated inside the Pandorica by the trap laid by the Time Lords (bear in mind, effect can precede cause in this universe, notably a time traveller's one), by beings in the belief that he intended to destroy the universe, nothing would stand between the Time Lords and the final sanction.

2. The Trickster. We have seen in the past that the Trickster loves chaos, and so something like this would be the finest form of chaos. The TARDIS exploding would result in severe damage across the universe, enough to warrant the attention of the Pandorica alliance. With them incarcerating the Doctor within the Pandorica would usher in a new era of chaos. The Pandorica alliance (formed by the Doctor's enemies) would roam the galaxies, conquering worlds by taking advantage of a "Doctor-less" universe. Once all had been conquered, each would destroy the other and chaos would be rife.


After watching "The Big Bang". Another idea came into the picture; what if the TARDIS exploding was simply only part of the plan? The Doctor states in "The Big Bang", that the Pandorica contained atoms of the original universe and if given infinite power inside the heart of the explosion, the universe would be completely restored. So what if a species anticipated the faith the Doctor and his companions have in eachother, what if an alien race wanted the Doctor to come up with this idea?

Think about it, the Doctor had in his hands a means of restoring the universe throughout all of time, because of the cracks. Could that mean that planets or worlds destroyed would also be restored? Perhaps this was the plan of a species that was wiped out in a harsh battle (say the Time War)? Perhaps some survived eradication (maybe even their species never existing; we never know, the time war was a chaotic time) and expected the Doctor to restore the universe.

Fallen planets and worlds would live again, perhaps even the Time Lords?

It's a bit confusing, but it all made sense one time.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Fri May 06, 2011 1:12 pm

It would be interesting if it was related to the Time Lords. Effect before cause also adds a brainfuck element. However, how does that relate to the Silence? As the cracks are linked to the Silence according to last years series.

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri May 06, 2011 5:37 pm

This was purely speculation originally, long before the new series was broadcast.

I just hate how some fans assume the RTD conclusion and shout "Omega!". Omega certainly wasn't a prolific enough villain to warrant a return and he is a Time Lord that was dead anyway.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Fri May 06, 2011 8:48 pm

Like being dead stop villains in Doctor Who... Tongue

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri May 06, 2011 8:55 pm

I always tried to come up with new villains. I was thinking of a villain that called themselves the Ravens, black hooded figures who were planning a great massacre on Earth in the earlier half of 19th century.

However, their plan was exposed by a tormented writer, whose iconic use of a raven within one of his most famous works was believed to be a hint to the emissary that foretold that humanity shall stand "Nevermore".
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Fri May 06, 2011 8:57 pm

Mind you, I still have something that is a working progress. After watching the likes of "The Impossible Astronaut" and "Day of the Moon", I need to up my game big time if I am to make a memorable tale.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Slayer Noir on Tue May 17, 2011 6:52 am

Anyone else wondering why the Doctor didn't just ask the TARDIS why she exploded in the latest episode?
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Tue May 17, 2011 11:10 am

She probably wouldn't have told him. I loved her character though, shame she died and can't really come back in that form with proper explanation. Sad

Her saying she's been remodelled 30 times past and future means we gots more to go! Grin

"The only water in the forest is the river." Forest of the Dead and River Song? Although I don't think the clue would be the name of the episode, that's breaking the fourth wall. Wink


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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Tue May 17, 2011 3:43 pm

I don't recall Amy being told about the Time War on screen by the Doctor. She said she knew that he killed them all, but I don't remember him telling her directly.
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Slayer Noir on Wed May 18, 2011 1:14 am

The River is definitely River Song... What the "Water" and the "Forest" means though? Thats harder to guess...

I thought maybe a reference to the Forest of the Dead, but that offers no explanation as to what water means.
Worth noting that she went through a forest in the episode with the Weeping Angels? And that if my evil little theory's correct, she went was in water in America? Probably not...

And Morbius, lots happens off screen on Doctor Who. There's always references to places the Doctor visited in the TARDIS that we don't see, and the Doctor must have met River at least once off screen, because the second time he meets her, he's supposed to giver her his screwdriver, but we don't see that in the episode with the Weeping Angels...
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Wed May 18, 2011 4:17 am

Slayer10090 wrote:I thought maybe a reference to the Forest of the Dead, but that offers no explanation as to what water means.

I thought the water was just a reference to the river. I didn't think they were separate.

And Morbius, lots happens off screen on Doctor Who. There's always references to places the Doctor visited in the TARDIS that we don't see, and the Doctor must have met River at least once off screen, because the second time he meets her, he's supposed to giver her his screwdriver, but we don't see that in the episode with the Weeping Angels...

Yeah, Matt Smith's seasons have mentioned off-screen trips a lot more prominently. And as a viewer we've heard the story several times already, so it wasn't necessary to tell us again.

Also, the Doctor hasn't given her his screwdriver yet (from his perspective). It was never said that it was the second time he met her, only the previous time she met him. As he did not give it to her in the Day of the Moon, an older version of her still has an older version of him to look forward to meeting. She thinks that was her last time but we know it can't be. Of course, the Doctor will know when it's the last time she'll see him (which may not be the last time he see's her) because the conditions have already been specified.

If we assume his death is permanent (the Impossible Astronaut) then we must also assume it happens before that point (obviously). However, whether it happens while he running or beforehand is unknowable at this point (although it's unlikely whilst he's running because he doesn't appear to have his TARDIS in those 200 years... the flashbacks we're all in a linear fashion from about 1811 onwards. If he has no TARDIS, first why? And second he couldn't have been with River at that place that was mentioned in the Library.


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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Slayer Noir on Wed May 18, 2011 4:38 am

Problem.

The sonic screwdriver River owned had a blue light. It was the one David Tennant used. It broke and got replaced with Matt Smith's current green one. So from the Doctor's perspective, he must have already given the screwdriver to River before it breaks.

Besides, if that didn't happen, wouldn't all River's meetings with the Doctor been him as Matt Smith apart from in the Library? She certainly didn't seem surprised to see him as David Tennant...

Perhaps I'm being naive. When they say their time lines are going in opposite directions, I assumed that was a perfect relationship (ie, every time the Doctor meets River once more, she's met him one less time). Is it just that they're going roughly in opposite directions? Is it just a general trend rather than a perfect relationship?
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by 3mptylord on Wed May 18, 2011 5:38 am

I think the colour of the screwdriver is the only hiccup. Sigh

I think David Tenant leaving sorta ballsed it up 'cause they redid the franchise a little bit - redecorating everything and all that. We can assume David Tenant met her a few times, and while it's possible (and probably now) that her final meeting with him happens off screen... I think it's a shame we don't see it, and if it's never mentioned again. Perhaps they can bring David Tenant back for a cameo in a special episode. It's almost the 10 year anniversary and other anniversaries had the iconic multiple doctors. Wink

It's not a perfect inverse relationship, I'm pretty sure aired episodes contradict it let alone others. She's older in Flesh and Stone than she is in the Pandorica Opens. Tongue

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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Wed May 18, 2011 6:27 pm

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey. That's all that can be said. Somehow in this strange universe, effect can precede cause.

What's everyone's opinion about the upcoming two parter, The Rebel Flesh and the Almost People?

Also we have a Cyberman episode coming up...
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by Slayer Noir on Thu May 19, 2011 2:38 am

*Puts on River Song voice*

Spoilers, Morbius

*Removes River Song voice*
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Re: [Spoilers] Silence Will Fall

Post by MorbiusMonster on Sun May 29, 2011 5:31 am

Now that was an important development. I can't believe my absurd theory was correct for the eye patch woman!
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