Mythics: Stagnant Discussion

First topic message reminder :

I've changed the title of the thread because the apostrophe wouldn't behave.

The twelve labours, inspired by both mythology and our unofficial mascot Dark Sylvania;

Nemean lion	Nemyon	Guantlets	Written by Jeeves.
Lernaean hydra	Lernos	Diadem	Written by Jeeves.
Cerinean hind	Cerina	Helm
Erymanthian boar	Erymont	Axe-hammer	Written by Jeeves.
Augean stables	Augo	Helm	Written by Trixtor.
Stymphalian birds	Stympho
Creten bull	Cretos	Mace
Mares of Diomedes	Trace
Shield of Hippolyta	Hippolyta	Rising Sun
Cattle of Geryon	Geryon
Apples of the Hesperides	Ladon	Golden Apple
Cerberus	Cerberus	Staff/Whip

Timeline of the Mythics' Quest;
• Grandeur, the gateway to the Mythics' Guild, must be appeased. The requirements for this section are merely the skill requirements for the quest, having completed the Legends' Quest and having a certain number of quest points. The plinth that Grandeur stands on has three icons connected by rivulets. You need them all to light up.
• Through the gateway you can see the image above, basically. Only, the warrior is also a statue and facing the other way. These thirteen statues are, in effect, Hercules and the twelve labours. Accompanying them is a fourth character, imposing as a thirteenth labour - Durial, our antagonist.
• "Herclues" will introduce the labours, and what they are for. It should be noted that the labours themselves, and Herclues, are irrelevant to the quest at the moment. Players can complete them now or later. It should also be noted that Hercules does not mention Durial, our 13th Labour. Trying to make him stick out.
• Each labour would be based on the labours from Greek Mythology. This is the guild of Mythics after all, and Greek wouldn't be the only source when we finally have access to the guild. "Completing a labour" involves retrieving a lost relic that has been hidden in your time. These tasks take place in both RuneScape, and bespoke instances.
• Durial requires three items; the Blades of Eleyon, the Cloak of Shadows and the Potion of Vulnerability. Each item will require utmost knowledge of RuneScape, as no requirements are officially given. This quest may seem long - but the labours aren't required at this point.
• After obtaining all three items for Durial he will exit the guild - returning to his own time. In the same cinematic, future-you will arrive; panting hysterically and cursing that he took too long (mentioning something about other future-yous and how he failed to improve... which you will also say).
• Future-you, though you don't know it yet, will tell you what you need to do next; which of the three labours you should complete. You require the Rising Sun, the Hydra's Diadem, and something defensive to counter the Blades of Eleyon. Future-you will also tell you what Durial's true intentions are.
• After having obtained these, your next mission is to activate the Chronarch's Throne, an altar capable of reversing the flow of time within the guild. *insert more on this segment*.
• Successfully rewinding time, you most exit the guild into the past and locate Durial. The fight will be epic... think Nomad, just harder (or perhaps not, Dark's still killing himself trying to kill Nomad). During this fight Durial will accuse you of being Guthix, among other interesting foods-of-thought.
• Return to the guild and fast-forward to the present. On your way to Grandeur, to speak with your future-self, you will notice two omens - Durial and yourself. Panicking, you run forward to try and stop yourself handing Durial the items. You will, of course, fail... and, well, you can probably see where I'm going.
• This segment is surprisingly easy, merely tell your past-you what to do.

The quest needs to end somewhere. Possibly when you exit the Guild and Grandeur's gargoyles will laugh at you, seemingly aware of you you'd just done. Or... the moment you return to the present it's quest-over, with aiding past-you merely being a required postal-script. I suppose that's the only issue with having a quest with no true questmaster.

February 14th, 2010;

Spoiler:

February 13th, 2010;

Spoiler:

October 1st, 2009;

Spoiler:

Oh psh! I spelled it wrong! Never mind about all that. So yeah....instead of writing a Labor, I just decided to write random stuff that has to do with the Guild/the quest in order to maybe make some sense of it or add things that might be found in-game.....yeah.

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Durial: It was writ that the Twelve Avatars were not of your world or of mine. They were not even of the Guild's making, though It would have you believe so. They transcend even the Naughth Age itself. Their images, seemingly frozen here for all time, are said to perhaps be they themselves. A favor to some god? A favor, perhaps, to the universe itself? No one can say. Look at each statue, touch them. As the labors persist, think of what you do. I cannot speak for what they shall be; mine are separate. The statues, even might be separate. I see what I am accustomed to seeing; things not out of the ordinary yet frightening in their own right. You may see something completely separate. The Avatars are beyond our comprehension and even our sight. They look as stone, but breathe as easily as flesh, we might find. An eternity in this hall is but a second to them. Tell me, what do you see?

You: I see a pig. And a big lion.

Durial: A pig...and a big lion....

You: Why, what do you see?

Durial: I see panic and fear, taken corporeal form and breathing themselves across the land. I see chaos and turmoil, ripping themselves limb from limb and slavering with jaws of nothingness, almost tearing out of the stone and clawing into our reality. Standing too close, I can almost feel the living entity on the separate plane, distant from me by a space almost too minute to comprehend, yet utterly unable to breach it.

You: Really??

Durial: No, I see a pig and a big lion.


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Wraith: We are the Lost, adventurer. Cast outside of time itself, we cling to the edges of reality, torn and frayed as it is. This Guild is the last haven for ones such as us; a place where our Age and the normal flows of time and space can still connect if only for a brief moment. It would be fruitless to try and explain when or why or how we were cast here, but suffice to say that it had been, is being, or will be done. All knowledge of us is gone...we have never existed and never will. Here we spin, solitary and alone.

You: So what *is* this place, then? Why am I here?

Wraith: You who arrive might call it a Mythics' Guild...a Guild for those whose name has gone beyond legend.

You: Beyond legend? What could be beyond a legend?

Wraith: A myth. Something that is no longer seen to be true.

You: But it *is* true! I've done lots of things!

Wraith: What have you done, adventurer? Have you slain fearsome beasts? Gone places where no mortal has dared to travel? Confronted gods? Done things that no other man of your world could even dream of? Already, your achievements are doubted. Your fame is far-spread, but your person is not. Your glory is casting a shadow over you, and soon, you will be all but gone. Your deeds shall live on in myth, as a story that was once told and might once have been true. Your name will change, your actions will change. It is the story that will matter, not the man behind it.

You: But I've done things no one can deny! I saved every major leader of Gielinor from certain death at the hands of a fiendish wizard!

Wraith: Certainly it was *done,* that is not to be denied. But think, only a handful of people were direct witnesses. The rest of the world only hears of your heroics. As time goes on and the leaders speak less and less about it, the only way it's spread is through the tales of the people who had heard it second-hand. They will forget your name, they will forget the actual events. People and places will get confused, thoughts and feelings will go by the wayside. The story that people *want* to hear will be told, and *your* story will be forgotten.

You: So why am I here???

Wraith: You are here because you are a myth. And soon, you shall become Lost. Entry into the Guild is what keeps you alive. If you return to your home, you shall remain a non-entity. Here, we revel in our dishonor. We are the Lost, adventurer.

Blagh, looks like we lost my Bloodyield and Pure Ectoplasm parts of the quest, too...

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The rivers of blood run deep in Meiyerditch. For some, the tithe is too much. Down, down the blood trickles, seeking refuge in the gutters of the streets and alleys. At last, the red waters drain into the sewers, relieving the inhabitants of the burden of seeing human guts glistening on the curb. But in the darkness of the Meiyerditch Sewers, the blood festers. *Something* has come to imbibe the fear and the panic that were the last moments of what had once been people. Bloodyield sprouts from the cracks in the sewer walls, drawn to blood rather than water. It is a horrid herb, fit only for potions of destruction. But it has a guardian now, down in the pits of the city of the damned. Shall the sewers flow red once more with the blood of the victim?

Finally revised my second labour!

Durial wrote:They transcend even the Naughth Age itself.

I don't know if Durial would term it the "Naughth Age". Although, actually, ignore me. I just got that it's referring to the beginning of time, irrespective of the our 0th Age.

Jeeves wrote:Blagh, looks like we lost my Bloodyield and Pure Ectoplasm parts of the quest, too...

Are you sure?


All. Amazing. Just btw. I'm itching to actually start writing now, and it's 3:30am. Grr. Would the section of quotes be, perhaps, released along with the gate some time before the actual release of the quest? So players can piece it together and speculate?

I've finished going through My Documents... found a lot of things I don't remember writing, but no Mythics'... sorry.

Actually, I'm lying. I found the ORIGINAL Mythics'.

You know the three circles? That's "Legend", "Renown" and "Skill" at the moment, isn't it? The "original" was "Renown", "Skill" and "Worth"... and it made me think, hm, maybe? The Renown, ie, quest points, could require Legends too? 300qp (inc Legends), for example. I don't know. Worth could be net worth, not monetary.

Sounds like before *my* time on here.

I don't think I ever posted it...

Ah, gotcha gotcha.

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Wraith: At the heart of the Guild, buried beneath eons of untouched space, is the Chronarch's Throne. Built by those who cast us into the void, it is a device capable of rending time in two. It was designed to create a crack in the fabric of time and send the carrier along the crack to a designated point in time. In essence, it was a time machine, to use crude words you might understand. When we were sentenced to be Lost, however, the Throne was commissioned for a final run. The width of the crack, usually carefully maintained, was set loose. Piled atop the Throne, we were sent spinning along a crack in time, only to fall through and watch as the universe sealed itself around us.

You: So is this whole Guild the Throne?

Wraith: It is a manifestation of other Lost things. Each stone, torch, and pillar of wood you see around you was once cast into the void from one time or another. We know not from whence they came. Though there is no time here, it seems that others were here before us, though we had not thought it possible. It seems that we are lost in more ways than just the one.

You: Was that supposed to be funny?

Wraith: ...I believe you were asking about the Chronarch's Throne?

You: Yes! How can I get to it?

Wraith: The Throne is buried deep in the heart of the Guild. It is never to be touched again...Ever.

You: But if I were to hypothetically get at it, how could I operate it?

Wraith: If you were to hypothetically get at it, you would first have to repair the device used to the control the width of the cracks created in time. When we were cast here, the device was obliterated beyond all repair, specifically so we *couldn't* get back.

You: Okay, anything else?

Wraith: You would need to calibrate the time gauges.

You: The what?

Wraith: The time gauges.

You: What are those?

Wraith: Gauges that measure time. They have to be calibrated.

You: Riiiight. That it?

Wraith: Finally, you would need two other people to help operate the Throne. It is so intricate that three people are needed in order to successfully control it. In the Guild, however, *you* are the only real thing. Everyone else is but Echoes and Omens. You are alone here, adventurer. There is no one else.

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The Throne rose slightly, hovering above the ground on a thin cushion of nothing. Our hero, the Echo, and the Omen all held onto a part of the strange, chair-looking device for dear life. From the outside, the scene looked quite comical; a large chair sat motionless above the ground while three burly men screamed and writhed on top of it, clinging to bits of the machinery as though they would die fiery deaths if a single finger slipped.

On the inside, however, the view was quite different. All around the Throne, reality seemed to be shattering. The Wraiths had always described "the fabric of reality" as if the edges would be nice and frayed like a warm woolen blanket, but that was bending the truth to an absurd degree. Reality was splintering to pieces here and there, revealing great patches of nothing where once solid stone and wood had stood. The air in the room seemed to be escaping rapidly out into the nothingness, leaving an empty vacuum. It was all they could do to avoid being pulled in themselves.

"Now what?!" screamed the Echo. "Should we pull the levers yet?"

"The levers?" echoed the Omen. "To hell with the levers! Get us into that crack or else we're all dead!"

Our hero reached a hand out to the chain that would cast the Throne back into the proper timeline of events. A single tug was all it took to relieve the Throne of its tether, but the rush of the void was too strong for our hero. He tried grasping for the chain with one hand, keeping the other safely wedged in a crack in the Throne, but it was no use. The chain danced tantalizing out of his reach.

"It's no good! I can't reach it!" he cried above the rush of escaping air and time. "We'll be sucked into time for sure!"

"Well, that's just dandy," groaned the Omen. "Nice try, yeah?"

"Shut your mouth," grumbled the Echo. "You never even asked if *I* was able to reach it."

From the outside, an observer might have been able to see a shadowy figure reach over and tug on a chain running around and around the chair, attaching to the ground at some unknown point. Then, for no reason at all, the chair would have winked out of existence and out of memory, never having been there at all.

Did we ever figure out why the Wraiths made the Guild? That's kind of a key point in all this.

Okay, word on the street is that the longest single quest on the forums right now is 81 posts long. We've gotta tear that to pieces. I can easily see this quest taking up 15 pages, possibly more! I am obsessed with this now, so y'all better help me out here!

I have some free time this weekend, so I may work on a labour or something. Emphasis on the 'may.'

Your previous dialogue made it seem like the guild came to betters by accident, so it's kind of hard to give a real reason why it'd be there. If the Guild were a construct then the wraiths could have been implemented as a virtual intelligence... A sort of interface with the guild. But if the wraiths only found themselves there...

I'm struggling to imagine the Chronarch's Throne as you described it in that passage.

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Statue: This one graciously welcomes you, Callum.
Callum: Urgh, have we met?
Statue: You are presently meeting this one.
Callum: Okay, who are you?
Heracles: This one is known as Heracles.
Callum: Hello, then.
Heracles: This one graciously welcomes you, Callum.
Callum: Yeah-- where am I?
Heracles: This place has no name, but you shall come to know it as the Mythics' Guild.
Callum: Ah cool. So is there some sort of requirement, some sort of quest I need to complete to enter?
Heracles: You are already present in this place.
Callum: Yeah but... it can't be that easy. I've slain dragons and demons for lesser guilds!
Heracles: This one would like to commend your feats, 
Callum: So... That's it?
Heracles: This one graciously welcomes you, Callum.

Heracles: This one is pleased to see you return, Callum.
Callum: Oh, hey.
Heracles: May this one be of service?
Callum: What are these all these statues?
Heracles: These twelves are my own. You will find this place has plentiful.
Callum: Do the serve any purpose?
Heracles: This place is where those like one are truly remembered. These represent this one's labours.
Callum: Those like you?
Heracles: You will come to know this place as the Mythics' Guild.
Callum: Other myths?
Heracles: Legends in their one's time.
Callum: So what do the statues do?
Heracles: These allow other one's to remember this one's labours.
Callum: So, like a book?
Heracles: These ones you will come to know as tasks, or challenges.
Callum: Ooh, like a quest!
Heracles: This one is pleased to be of service, Callum.

For the Throne, I really had no plan in mind. I sort of pictured it as...a gigantic steampunk throne, maybe? With bits and bobs and all sorts of fun things!

And my thoughts on the origin of the Guild (let me know if this just will *not* work) were that the Wraiths had been cast into the Naughth Age by something or other. There, they found various bits of debris that had been lost there before, and they constructed the Guild out of everything that ever had been and ever would be Lost. The reason for the Guild is what I'm still trying to work out. I personally think it would be interesting to have the Wraiths want to trap all the Mythics inside but for "their own good." I can't really explain it, so I'll just try and dialogue my way out of it.

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Wraith: Do not be alarmed, adventurers. You have entered the Guild. All time has ceased to exist from the moment you passed through our gates. Every hero invited to our realm is here at this very moment, from before your time and after your time. Look around. You will see heroes of legend and people who might seem from another planet. You live eons of years apart. Here, there is no time, and everyone convenes as an equal.

Echo: Hey, why are those guys wandering around? Didn't you tell everyone to listen up?

Wraith: They are you. When you leave our Guild and seek to return one day, you shall be older and wiser, but things here will not have changed. You will enter the Guild at the same moment as everyone else. Though you have already been here, when you return it will be as the first time. There is only one entry into the Guild, but as many exits and returns as you please.

Omen: So what's there to do here?

Wraith: There is nothing to do here but wait.

Omen: Wait? What for?

Another Omen: I sallied forth through these gates to fight bold conquests!

Wraith: You are all legends in your own right. But soon, your glory will fade and the people of your worlds will cease to be impressed by your actions. Your stories may live, but you, the hero of them, will die. Already, some of you may realize the loss of which we speak. The Guild offers you sanctuary from the scorn of the outside worlds. We shall never forget our deeds, though time might. Here, we are the Lost, but among ourselves, we are never forgotten.

In ten revolutions of the Circle, the gates to the Guild will irrevocably close. You will be shut in here forever, just as we have been. You will never grow old. You will revel forever in your glory, sharing stories with every other hero who ever swept or shall sweep the glory of the universe!

Various People: You can't do that! I want to leave! Let us out!

Wraith: The gates are not yet locked, adventurers. You may leave whenever you please. Only remember this. Out there, back in your own times, you may continue to enjoy the radiance of your valor for many more years. But inevitably, the hopelessness of your plight will dawn. You will choose to return to the only place where your accomplishments shall never age. We are all the Lost, adventurers, but only some of us have realized it.

Some of you might return several times before finally staying past the tenth revolution. You might stay for five revolutions one time, six the next. Each time, you will wonder what exactly will happen should you choose to stay for the tenth. Finally, you will remain. And you shall be Found.

Jeeves wrote:For the Throne, I really had no plan in mind. I sort of pictured it as...a gigantic steampunk throne, maybe? With bits and bobs and all sorts of fun things!

Ahh, I wasn't so much actually picturing it as a chair. But that sounds cool.

And my thoughts on the origin of the Guild (let me know if this just will *not* work) were that the Wraiths had been cast into the Naughth Age by something or other.

Is that the Naughth Age beginning of time? The current "0th Age" portion of the quest is just with respect to our own 1st Age, but there is an expansive period of 0th Age... which to someone of that time might have their own ages. Like... BC and AD. -1th Age.

Nice, passage. Perhaps the Wraiths are collectors of sorts? They sincerely want to provide a sanctuary, preserve the living-literature, etc.

I was just thinking of the Naughth Age as something sort of...beyond time. Falling through the cracks as it were.

So I don't really remember what we had planned for the weapons/whatever we needed in order to actually *beat* Durial, but I thought it would be kinda neat if we had to go to other times/areas in order to find the different pieces. I have no idea how it would work, but I imagine it would have to be something like "tagging along" with an echo or omen as they go back to where they came from? I think we could have a lot of fun trying out things that just wouldn't be possible on Gielinor.

Jeeves wrote:I was just thinking of the Naughth Age as something sort of...beyond time. Falling through the cracks as it were.

Okay, I was just getting confused because 0th Age currently refers to the time before the 1st... which is Durial's time. The time before year 0, rather than the time before time.

Jeeves wrote:So I don't really remember what we had planned for the weapons/whatever we needed in order to actually *beat* Durial, but I thought it would be kinda neat if we had to go to other times/areas in order to find the different pieces. I have no idea how it would work, but I imagine it would have to be something like "tagging along" with an echo or omen as they go back to where they came from? I think we could have a lot of fun trying out things that just wouldn't be possible on Gielinor.

Neat idea.

I've just drawn a blank on the list of items...

We acquire the Blades of Eleyon, Shadow Cloak and Mortality Potion for Durial, and the Rising Sun... but then I draw a blank. I can't remember all the items we get to defeat Durial.

Did we decide on using things from the Labors? Or was it half labor/half something else? Or were the Labors just sort of extra? I'm confused.

I'll be helpful here. We planned on having some of the rewards for completing the labours be some of the items in question. Not all of the labours were intended a such, and some, such as the ones I have written already, just don't lend themselves well to the items (although the use of some of the dung from the stables to create a special form of compost could be used if we decide that 'callum' will have to grow the herbs needed for the potion.)

Some labours were requires, though not all. To be honest, I don't recall true purpose.

Ah, right...So in other words, we have no idea what's going on.

Mhmm.

Reread the thread, if you want to get a batter idea of what we had decided upon a while ago.

I did reread the thread, but I'm still confuzzled.

I don't think there will be enlightenment.

I think the statues were first added for decoration, because I like the picture. Then I saw Dark Silvania's artwork and thought it might be cool to use some mythological content (being the myths guild) and so the statues were repurposed... although they still remained decorative (at least as far as the quest was concerned). Remember that the guild doesn't have any requirements to enter beyond gaining the requirements to step in... the Mythics' Quest is Durial conning us into believing it's the requirement (and frankly, we're happy to believe him because we can't believe there would be no requirement).

(with hindsight, this next bit is a complete tangent)
The quest itself is a predestination paradox I guess... one could argue that our "mythical-worthy" quest that grants us access to the guild occurs only because we gain access to the guild. The quest itself currently utilises (and you suggest additional) content that would actual use causality loops/bootstrap paradoxes as pivotal parts of the quest.

(back on route)
I think we should start again, at least in terms of a plot. And I don't mean... start-start again, just, start from the beginning.

The Guild serves as some sort of living library (whether the wraiths are collectors, or the greatest villains, etc, who cares at this point). The Guild acts as a sanctuary for the legends behind the myths, and as bonus content players can reinact their stories (the labours of Heracles decorating the entrance) - this also poses a means for players to suggest content that could be added without affecting the game (since the events don't occur in real time, or in real space, with respect to the game).

We enter the guild, after meeting the three requirements (which are not disclosed officially/ingame at most). These are currently Renown, Status and Skill (however, I previously suggested Worth being one, and combining Renown and Status... so I'm throwing the idea out, I'm not saying it has to... I personally would loath a worth requirement just because I'm a humble noob).

Within the guild, we are confronted by the current-protagonist, Durial (whose name should possibly be changed, I don't know why it was chosen to name the lead villain after a defamous RuneScape player).

He requires items of us in order to defeat an adversary, and we play the role of hero (as per usual, not asking too many questions... or, at least, persisting for answers).

And then...? Durial gets his items, goes back to his own realm. We end up inside the Guild where an Omen of us comes to tell us that we probably shouldn't have done that. We learn that we need to get INSERT ITEMS HERE in order to defeat Durial back in his own timeline! After we get all the stuff, we need to somehow get the Chronarch's Throne back in operation which involves fixing various bits and getting other Mythics to help us. After it's working, we have to go back, fight Durial, and return! Hooray!

At this point, the quest could be over. Or maybe we could do something to either help the Wraiths or stop them from trapping everyone? And if we stop them, then the Guild will never have existed...and we'll never go back....and the quest will never have happened....curious.