[P] Everything about Mogruls

by **Zectiox** Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:15 am

^{The Mogrul}

A thread for the Pallis Project about Mogruls.

We got so far clear over Dynasties and some other stuff.

by **Duskcurse** Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:48 pm

I don't know why but I think of them as cannibals, my 2 cents

by **The Empty Lord** Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 pm

They do not eat their own. Or, not "normally" (illness, fetish and extenuating circumstances aside).

Mogruls are a hardy race, thick skinned and proud. They are perhaps the most profoundly religious of the races upon Pallis, worshipping a Spirit Mother (and possibly an Earth Mother, could be interesting to have two). As a species they are bullies and don't hesitate to kill outsiders without having to feel threatened - although that does not mean they will, merely have no concerns over doing it. Despite this, they are fond of pet-like companionships with animals - and it's not uncommon for them to keep a hunting friend.

Mogruls have a temper. They have quite an aggressive social structure, but their thick hides make any physical interactions no more violent than day to day human life. They still love to compete, and very much enjoy courting-style mating similar to animals who fight or decorate themselves in order to attract each other.

The mogruls live in estranged nations usually separated by disagreement within a single nation. This is not to say that every disagreement will lead to a new nation, but it's how mogruls deal with civil disputes rather than an all out war. Segregations are political, but mogrul won't actively condemn their young to a pure-blood style education... any feud between a clan and it's offspring usually dies out within a few generations.

This of course depends on the nature of the disagreement - and there are tribes that the majority of mogruls would rather not be affiliated with (and will intentionally shun and warn each other about).

A little bit a folklore;
Kuan is the name given to a subclass of mogruls. Kuan are wolf like in behaviour and social structure, existing in packs. Kuan are almost exclusively male as females rarely survive initiation, but Kuan do not/scarcely reproduce. Rather, young mogruls are stolen by the Kuan and raised within the pack. As such, Kuan are generally pitted by the mogrul community.

Kuan wear wolf pelts as a sort of perverted tribute to the creature they are pretending to be - although, pretend should be substituted in some sense with "believe to be". Kuan are feral, they hunt on all fours and live like animals. They are animals. The Kuan ancestor may have been by choice, an experiment, or just a lost boy actually raised by wolves... but these mogrul aren't some cult, this is who they believe they are.

The initiation I mentioned is a right of passage, or a right to adulthood. The young mogrul will spend a few years as an apprentice, shadowing and being trained by the older Kuans, but to become part of the tribe they must acquire their first pelt - to kill and skin a wolf, and moreover, to survive. They are treated as pups until they pass the right, or die.

by **Zectiox** Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:12 pm

nice about the Kuans Tongue

If there is a tribe that have more power than the other ones could this tribe have some sort of senate or council that is taking the politics about the own tribes economy etc.

and what about their lifetime? are they living longer than the diminors and dwallows or shorter? and do they have the same immune system as the other two leading races in pallis?

how many tribes would there be in pallis on the mogruls territory?

few (1-3)
normal (4-6)
many (6-11)

some tribes having focus on fishing, timber, mining, farmland (even if it is kind of deadland around... they are trying to..). politic, hunting... (you could gain respect by doing tasks for them on the focus area, if they welcomes us... ? )

I just love the thought of not only having one Fremenik but having more than one tribe to travel to and trying to get allies or something.. some tribes are peacefull other wants to fight more than talk about it.

idk thoughts Tongue

by **The Empty Lord** Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:30 pm

A dozen colonies, maybe. I dislike using the word "tribe", it brings nomadic or primal images to mind. But I can't find a better word. I suppose "states" would work, but they are only together under the Spirit Mother (and not any "living" leader) (unless I misunderstood what a state is).

They would have some sort of social hierarchy... such as the oldest being shaman, their next of kin being leader, and a hand picked council. I don't know, something quaint.

When a clan (ooh, clan?) gets into a civil dispute and it cannot be resolved then typically the clan will split (rather than getting messy with war). These two nations were created based on a feud but, as I said, it's not typical for two to continue to feud after a few generations - typically, parents don't raise their offspring with an inbuilt prejudice, and so it doesn't take long for the reason why the separated to simply be forgotten.

Present day, there would be a handful of large dominions - with maybe a dozen clans in total. With as many, newborn clans usually just immigrate and merge with another clan since the main causes for dispute probably has a clan already. Umm... an example. The Red Clan likes red, a few people decide they don't like red but rather than form a new clan, they join the blue clan who already exist.

The largest clans aren't necessarily the most powerful. One clan may exist to try and become dominant, they are tired of the segregated community... and so they are trying to sabotage. They aren't the largest clan, maybe not even a clan and just a few individuals who are spread out, and they commit deeds to scare, etc.

(It's weird. The dwallow are definitely teacher's pet, but I've got a lot more to say on the mogrul).

by **Dark Avorian** Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:56 pm

Okay...I'm sorry, but do the clans get into conflicts ever? (NOT WAR) Like during the feuding after a split would there be a few violent clashes? Maybe originating from like raids on the other group.

by **The Empty Lord** Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:07 pm

Well before segregation attempts will be made to resolve the issue. But it really depends on the issue as to how violent matter are.

by **Zectiox** Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:25 am

what if having one trade clan, members of the clan is traders and craftsmen who traveling around the mogrul territory to trade with other clans, maybe settle down a tradevillage on some popular road to have a nice income.

sry to bring up diminors here but what if some diminors had built up a small harbourtown near the cload sea or dark sea to get income from the market. They could stand for the trading of minerals to Dwallows and timber to Mogruls and other goods that the parts needs. (the diminors living in this harbourtown could be mostly bor-dimins or Az-dimins? as their focus are on the resourches and cities. This harbourtown has some sort of pact against war, they pay the mogruls to have their town on their territory. and they got plenty from the goods between the 'nations'. Maybe the shiptransportation could be between this town and a town on the other side of the cload sea? Tongue

back to the mogruls. Colonies, much better than tribes yes.. Provinces, states...?... and each colony or clan have their own thinking of life and focus on living. ofc they can spread to a large area to dominate the resourch in that area.

The Hrekim;

Spoiler:

by **The Empty Lord** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:05 am

I dislike the clans being specific to a trade (by trade I mean a profession, not trading). Clans were segregated on political grounds, not because some were miners and some were farmers. However, I like your idea of a clan that's raised on a very smithing-based attitude. Similar to dwarves I guess (I'm not saying small, just their attitude). I like it. Smile

But I'm not saying I want a woodcutters clan, a crafters clan, etc. Crafts man, hunters, etc, should just be inhabitants of a clan - you could even just have the Blacksmith family within one clan.

But of course the clans will trade. Although... mogrul territory is pretty generic, and everything a mogrul needs is pretty much accessible to all mogruls without needing to trade between clans. Your Hrekim have a good thing going - if they are fine smiths they truly have a resource that isn't found everywhere, even if every clan has smiths.

As for trading outside their dominion, I do not think there should be specific routes or established trading. Outsiders can visit the market places and the merchants are usually polite (a sale's a sale)... but there's no regular route. There could be a supply route across the north sea, to make shipping resources from the marshland quicker and safer than crossing through mogrul territory...

Mogrul cities are like human cities, I guess... they grow outwards. The old only gets replaced when it expires, rather than to upgrade. Most cities are built around highground - whether a mountain or a hill. Their largest city started within a cliffrange, but has since expanded onto the grounds around that it's hard to tell cliffs are there at all.

Mogrul males are short lived, 40 being old for them. Females can live anything up to twice this age. Mogrul are quite resistant to disease, and thus usually die of age related causes.

(I've updated my above few posts a bit. I want the mogrul to be a bit more violent to each other - but given their hardy skins, it's still equates to little more than banter).

by **Dark Avorian** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:16 am

The Grand Vizier's Opinion of the Discussed Topic

I think it seems obvious that different clans might specialize. I don't think that they all need to specialize, as there will certainly be some that are purely politically different, but it seems to me that there would be some clans that would stake out a valuable territory and use it, it's common sense. And it's honestly bad management of a hemisphere to just say a huge portion of it is "meh interchangeable"

Also, as to trading routes, it seems to me rather futile to say "there are no established trading routes" So what? the traders don't talk to each other at all? They don't talk to locals? There are going to be preferred routes, in all likelihood they will be some of the more passable land, there will be trade. I mean it's all well and good to say you want the races to have less organization, but now your just willfully making them unable to do something dumb animals would do instinctively.

-Dark Avorian
-Grand Vizier of the Registry
-Lord Templar

P.S. Yes I am making a habit of this, complain to Gladz, he inspired it.

by **The Empty Lord** Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:33 am

Something is only considered specialised by outsiders who lack said skills. An establishment formed near the sea will be adept at fishing, you'd hope, but that doesn't make them a fishing clan. It means their food resource is fishing.

Mogrul, as a general rule, don't export. Outsiders may follow established paths - but they are commuting routes, not trading routes. On rare that the mogrul export, such as Zectiox Hrekim supplying someone with large supplies of equipment, the route would be planned specifically for that journey - perhaps using known commuting routes, but probably not so has to avoid other travellers.

Trade between mogruls clans is no different; the onus is on the buyer. There will be tracks between clans - commonly walked paths. But it's for commuting, not trading... if the commuter intends on making purchases that is there own.

"They don't talk to locals?"
What would locals tell them? Where the butcher is? Where the butcher hunts? What makes you think the locals would tell outsiders? Where the baker's farms are? Where his farm boys live?

What lack of organization are you inferring? Powerful nations that are predominantly self-sufficient. You go to your local butcher, your local baker, etc... you don't import wheat, you grow your own. If you don't have wheat, you don't eat bread. You've never even heard of bread. If you want bread, you can make your own way.

Travelling destinations, maybe, they sell the best bread here... I spent years finding the best baker, it's here.

Perhaps the southern nation wishes the mogrul would export... but trading means giving something for something you want. Regular trade would require an exchange rate. At the moment, it's up to the buyer to interest the seller with a trade - as they will unlikely have anything the mogrul trade with (which I haven't decided on yet).

P.S. I'm fairly sure trading is beyond basic animal instinct. Most animals get what they want themselves, or they don't get it. They don't take food to another's territory and swap it for their food. If you want their food you risk going into their territory and getting it yourself.

by **Dark Avorian** Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:51 am

The Grand Vizier's Opinion of the Discussed Topic

In your first paragraph you make a few nonsensical claims that quibble about definitions. You act as though somehow my use of the word "specialization" is offensive, but your cleverly concocted phrase somehow has a vastly different intent.

As to the rest I have two major objections. The first is that the person who first suggested the Mogrul was Zectiox, not you, and although he is welcoming input, you do not get to arbitrarily decide everything. If anyone gets to do that, it's Zectiox.

Also, I honestly don't understand what you are saying, we have a large, active, warlike race, living in a barren area, and they don't trade? They don't trade with the people who have fields and are probably capable of agriculture? And commuting trails, what kind of semantic bullshit is that, kindly calm your apparently incessant urge to quibble over the words we use.

If a large portion of the population is moving over track X between clans A and B, and many of them are trading, I feel perfectly alright calling that a trade route, because guess what: it is. You need to get this stick of "no never not organized, or at least not like Dark is suggesting" out of your ass.

Mogrul clans are probably going to take over various territories that have valuable resources. They are going to specialize in using these resources because thats what you do when you have plentiful access to and control over a resource. And they're going to trade because other people are going to want that resource. Sure, maybe the fish people won't have a great market for fish in other places, but any clan with control of mineral deposits is going to have plenty of buyers.

I really don't understand why you are being so damnably stubborn about this sort of thing. It's a f*cking trading route, deal with it. It will happen. I'm sorry if it shattered that little idyllic painting of completely self sufficient tribal idiots roaming happily across a vast unchanging plain in groups that are indistinguishable.

-Dark Avorian
-Grand Vizier of the Registry
-Lord Templar

by **The Empty Lord** Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:48 am

In your first paragraph you make a few nonsensical claims that quibble about definitions. You act as though somehow my use of the word "specialization" is offensive, but your cleverly concocted phrase somehow has a vastly different intent.
^
It's quite possible I just dislike hearing "fishing clan", or "crafting clan", like they are professions that any mogrul clan doesn't need. But I like the Hrekim, the violent clan that the other mogruls dislike, and the possibility of a Warriors Clan. I think I was also objecting to the need to give them a title... but I guess anyone will be renown.

The first is that the person who first suggested the Mogrul was Zectiox, not you.
^
Wrong. I suggested the mogrul. Zectoix may have said we need another race, but I suggested the mogrul. I only say because I named them and drew their silhouette (which is about the sum of all there is on them).

"If a large portion of the population is moving over track X between clans A and B, and many of them are trading, I feel perfectly alright calling that a trade route, because guess what: it is".

There is no large portion of population moving over a track between clans A and B, so guess what, it's not a trade route. It's a dirt path at most. A clear route between two cities that is walked for directness.

"It will happen. I'm sorry if it shattered that little idyllic painting of completely self sufficient tribal idiots roaming happily across a vast unchanging plain in groups that are indistinguishable."
There's your problem, you seem to think I picture them "roaming".

But you know what, fine. They lugs carts of resources between cities, attempting to sell their wares at market. Although I don't really know why you feel it's such a basic thing to do. Each city has it's own hunters - there is no trade for meat; each city has it's own mineral resources - there is no trade for rocks; each city has butchers and bakers and healers and... etc. It's only the specialism that sells - a level of smithing not seen elsewhere, etc.

But if there's travelling merchants there's inevitably be trading routes. But I'm still preferring there isn't a trading route to the southern region - or not one the mogrul use. If there a tourist route that's commonly used for people who know which souvenirs they want so be it, of course there would be considered-safe routes through mogrul territory - basic mapping skills.

by **Dark Avorian** Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:08 am

The Grand Vizier's Opinion of the Discussed Topic

I'm trying hard not to scream in frustration right now. Based on your insistence I'm now seeing the mogrul as just a few trolls sitting in holes in big hills, who eat rocks and do nothing else. You seem incapable of grasping the idea that maybe I'm trying to help you create a world.

You know what. You always pull out your goddamn "I'm a roleplaying writer/suggester and here's my view" in discussions of RS so I'm gonna do the same. Looking at this with a critical eye, I currently see nothing to interest me as a gamer in the entire game.

-Dark Avorian
-Grand Vizier of the Registry
-Lord Templar

by **Duskcurse** Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:29 am

Its true 3mpty if whe go by how you want it to be there will not be even a pallis version of the general store, I know it sounds like a joke but it isnt

by **The Empty Lord** Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:48 am

Maybe insightful;
Dark says:
The only thing I dislike is your opposition to the idea that there might be any greater structure atall to their societies
3mpty says:
I object
I don't oppose the idea from greater structure within societies
Merely interspecies
Well, inter north-south
Dark says:
I'm sorry but when you object to the idea that people will trade... you set a pretty strict precedent
3mpty says:
No, I object to the idea that there will be active trading between north and south
Dark says:
So you're saying the people living in a barren stony place won't trade with the guys with fields...how is that gonna work?
3mpty says:
They survived this long
Dark says:
...you do realize how stupid that answer sounds?
3mpty says:
No, they did not need fields to become where they are
There are resources at their disposal that they have survived on
Maybe they have not been suggested, but they are there
That much is obvious because "they survived this long"
Dark says:
...So...underground fungi farms are all that come to mind... Tongue

3mpty says:
They hunt, this implication is that their is terrain suitable to support a food chain of prey
They farm, perhaps fungi
But their terrain is dirt, not stone, so the potential for agriculture is there
It might be tuff foods that don't taste particularly nice, but they're there
Fishing, both cloud and otherwise
Dark says:
wait...the north is dirt...
I was sure it was a stony barren...
...well that makes everything a lot nicer
I still find it difficult to believe no one trades between north and south
3mpty says:
I'm not saying no-one
But it would be between south and north
I'm not being pedantic either
Mogrul cannot hack the southern terrains

by **The Empty Lord** Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:54 am

Duskcurse wrote:Its true 3mpty if whe go by how you want it to be there will not be even a pallis version of the general store, I know it sounds like a joke but it isnt

I'm quite content to not have a "general" store. There will be bakers, butchers, cloth salesman, etc. A general store is a fad anyway - he's a middle man that buys and sells, but doesn't provide any of their own stock. However, for the purposes of a game where players like having a single shop: both the north and south can easily have one, they merely won't stock exotic goods.

We need to name the north and south...

by **Zectiox** Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:02 pm

its true, It was I who started this thread not came up with it, thought we needed a Mogrul thread when we already had a diminor and forerunner thread Tongue

Just thought of giving mogruls some light for once. so please stop fighting

my version of a clan and having focus on something. right one clan has everything that any clan can have. smith, bakers, fletchers.. you name it. Some clans, Hrekim for example are more focused on mining and smithing. they need the trade for this point to get food supplies.. (they work hard, they live in the mountain)... so some traderoute may be between them. the hrekim could have farms and hunts but they focus on mining. they could trade tools and weapons for food and other material for their towns and villages.

as 3mpty said as a clan living near the coast doesn't making them a fishing clan, their focus food is fish. some lives near the coast maybe they could do some farming... somekind.

yeah

next question
names of:
North of pallis

South of pallis

now school.. cya ;D

by **Zectiox** Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:38 pm

giving some name suggestions of the north and the south

[N]Achurne

[S]Isthael

[N]Mórthand

[N]Dúrvaethor

[S]Arvellon

[N]Dolchim

[S]Mythilech

[N]Seraphim

[S]Orseranth

[S]Atharich

[S]Cabuice

[N]Xandorin

[N]Zitihain

[S]Caldorin

the [N]&[S] is north and south and where I would put the names Tongue

by **The Empty Lord** Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:31 am

Caldorin doesn't sound too bad. Tongue

by **Zectiox** Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:39 am

choose the 5-6 best of them and make a poll of it Tongue

or make like Caldorin and Seraphim as South and north or north and south Tongue

let the people deside Tongue

by **The Empty Lord** Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:12 am

Toba

I don't know, North should have a much simpler name. Nothing with complicated syllables or fancy letters. Tongue

by **Zectiox** Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:28 am

Toba and Caldorin ? Grin

that sounds quite nice.

by **The Empty Lord** Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:40 pm

It does. But you want this to be democratic. Wink

by **Zectiox** Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:09 am

make a poll
"Q: should North and South Pallis be called Toba and Caldorin?"
"1A: Yes"
"2A: No"

or we could find 3-4 names "##### and #####" Tongue

to see what the people like most ;P have the poll for like 2 weeks only as 1 week may be too short?

Short names

Lugo
Corc
Adoc
Catur

Medium Names

something + orin, ian,

Katoorin
Cucian (chuchian)
Qualrorin
Zaetorin

... links ...
http://www.rinkworks.com/namegen/
http://nine.frenchboys.net/fanname.php
http://nine.frenchboys.net/country.php
http://dicelog.com/yafnag
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-name.php
... links ...

well anyway.. we got one suggestion "Toba and Caldorin" if nothing else is figured out we take it.. simple Grin

:D if we need to vote we vote Tongue

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