Make Combat More Interactive

First topic message reminder :

Augments and Interactive Combat

Credit: 3mptylord and Slayer10090
Partial: Dark Avorian and Blaze FF8

For the most part this idea only effects Ranged and Melee combat, and this will be difficult to amend so long as Magic is predominantly weaponless (or rather, without class-specific weapons). Ideas of mine such as Conjuring and Firearms would provide Magic the equipment it requires to truly utilise this idea; but wands and—to some extent—staffs will also allow it.

This update doesn't require that players interact more than they already do. In a nutshell, the entirety of the current Combat Styles panel can be found in the top and bottom line of the revised panel: the weapon name, combat level, attack styles (accessed via right click) and auto-retaliate. The special attack is the only feature to have changed (see on).

All weapons would be given a single "default" attack, likely one it's current combat styles (it's experience type can be changed via right-click). In addition, all weapons would be given the following;
• Between two and three perks (aka "abilities", "alternate attacks" or simply "attacks").
• A circle augment slot.
• Between zero and two specialized augments slots.

A modification to the interface to accommodate shield slots:

Perks have effects, the simplest of which being an instant attack. Each perk has a cool down which takes effect when the weapon is first equip, as well as between attacks. An attack that is in cool down will be coloured red, which will slowly drain to illustrate the time left (this could also feature a number in seconds over the top)(the transition of the drain could either be a top-to-bottom drain, or a countdown/clockstyle). In case you didn't catch that, newly equip weapons won't have any available perks instantly (unless they have no cool-down) - thus, switching weapons will not bypass cool downs.

Augments too have effects, and come in two varieties: active and passive. Active effects come into effect when the icon is clicked (can be both one-off and duration based); whilst passive effects are always in effect whilst the augment is in use. "Active" effects have cool downs just like perks, and just like perks these cool downs will come into effect when the weapon is first equip (an active cool down will not effect any passive effects).

Regarding my comment at the top, the lack of special attack bar is the only part of this suggestion which impacts the current combat system (as all other features are optional). Special attacks will appear as active effects on augments (unless their effects are changed as part of the update, I reckon Excalibur's Sanctuary should have an area-of-effect passive too); removing the special attack bar. Players who use a single weapon will likely find this update beneficial, as they can use attacks more frequently; whilst players who weapon-hop will find this detrimental, as there is no global control for special attacks (and switching weapons will in fact reset any active cool downs).

Augment information:

Description of the image:

An altercation:

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Boosts and Curses

I'm going for the overkill now...

An alternative with 6 affliction slots:

Affliction slots display those effects provided by consumables/allies or inflicted by enemies, rather than passive effects provided by your own equipment (such as augments and prayers).

Whilst I've jokingly used the little warrior icon to display a message, that icon could bring up a full list of personal effects (such as the Slayer Mask, etc.).

...like this!:

These slots only display duration-based effects (anything which lasts for longer than the instant it was used). This will either be indefinite (so long as whatever's causing it is around) or a timer. In practical terms, the only things that aren't displayed here are boosts like Vengeance and Cure Other/Group, which activate instantly, and Blood spells, which have no lasting effect. Something such as Cure Other could have a resulting effect, "Recently Cured", which grants temporary immunity from poison (which I think potions currently do, but I'm not sure about cure spells).

A player cannot be affected by any more than there are slots available - so a player that is poisoned and diseased cannot be further afflicted. You can ignore/remove boosts by right-clicking on them, however, curses cannot be removed without appropriate action (such as an anti-poison potion). In the event that you have no available slots and someone tries to use something, there are instances where your current effects might be temporarily (or permanently) replaced. For example, temporary boosts will take precedence over passive boosts (as you'll get the passive back when it's done). This isn't normally the case for curses, as getting poisoned might be considered a safe-guard to more powerful area-of-effect curses (which wouldn't be fair).

To make things easier, most effects would be given some sort of priority rating. Also, like-effects (such as poison and specific skill boosts) would replace weaker effects. Effects such as those aforementioned generally won't stack, but this would (again) be case-by-case.

You know, special attacks could just be improved so that they remain "special". For example, most special attacks at the moment only feature an "active" effect, whilst the new augment system would be compatible with multiple effects. Thus, it would make sense to update existing special attacks.

Excalibur's Sanctuary Augment. (Active) Raises players defence by 8 levels. (Passive, Unique) Raises allied players strength by 1 level when fighting the same target.



P.S. You missed the huge list of existing augments.

(in the following lists, "unique" means that it's the only of it's kind... not a non-stack effect)
(perhaps a better word than unique could be used for non-stack?)

Unique, bound augments;
Shock, Sever, Cleave, Shatter, Rampage, Sweep, Clobber, Powerstab, Slice'n'dice, Blighted, Wretched, Infested, Tainted, Corrupted, Defeiled, Smash, Feint, Spear Wall, Miasmic, Phantom, Hamstring, Crack (formally energy drain), 'Rum'ify, Sanctuary, Sanctuary+, Weaken, Impale, Power of Light, Reap, Backstab, Liquefy, Favour of the War God, Saradomin's Lightning, Disrupt, Judgement, Warstrike, Healing blade, Ice cleave, Snap-shot, Chainhit, Soulshot, Restorative shot, Balanced shot, Twin shot, Snipe, Defiance, Descent of Darkness (descent of dragons will be a conditional active) and Aimed shot

Repeating, bound augments;
Quick smash, Shove, Retainer, Powershot and Leaf-blade.

Uniquely-shaped, non-bound augments;
Unique, non-bound augments: Arcane sigil, Divine sigil, Elysian sigil, Spectral sigil, Draconic visage, Saradomin Strike, Claws of Guthix and Flames of Zamorak

Weapons that increase magic damage (existing augment);
Staff of Light (15%), Ahrim's Staff (10%) and Zuriel's Staff (10%)

Weapons that increase magic damage (no current augment);
Chaotic Staff (20%), Ancient Staff (10%), Master Wand (10%), Void Knight Mace (10%) and Gravite Staff (10%)

By "existing augment" and "no current augment" in the last two: the weapons citing "existing augment" are weapons that have a special attack (and thus an augment has already been listed, which the effect can be passive on). The other, "no augment" ones do not have a special attack... thus there is no current special attack name for them to piggyback.

Claws, Flames and Strike should all be non-bound, but uniquely shaped (despite Claws currently being the only one at present (both Guthix and Void Knight)). The only source of the augments would be the staffs (which are non-tradeable), but the augments can also be placed in the books. The augment would still have charges, regardless of if in the staff or book.

To be honest, I have very little to say about what you've written. And thats a good thing, it just means that I agree with it, not that I couldn't be bothered to read it

Adding passive effects to special attacks sounds like a solution that could work. As with your previous idea, I'm willing to go with it and decide towards the end whether specials have become too weak. Obviously, this makes the chance of my doing so much less likely.

I have some augment ideas that I want your opinion on, too

I had an idea for 9 active shield augments, that will block 10, 20, and 30 percent of melee, missile or magic damage for a period of 20 seconds when activated. No idea what their names should be though...

Ideas for another set of augments. These are extremely rare, high powered ones... Once activated, you enter a 5 second state where you cannot attack. After this 5 seconds, 5% of any damage you take in that period is given as a boost to a particular skill (I was thinking of having an augment that would do this for attack, strength, defense, ranged and magic). This effect will fade in 30 seconds. 5 minute recharge time

A third set called the siphon set. These allow you to drain unwanted combat stats back into your health. 10 points are lost per activation, which will heal 100 LP. There will be siphons for attack, strength, defense, magic and ranged, but all of these would probably have to be cross augments. Cooldown of 1 minute

My fourth idea for a set is a group of augments called Sacrifices. These work very similarly to siphons, but are for prayer instead of lifepoints. It'll cost the player 20 points per activation, which will restore 5 prayer points. Cooldown is, again 1 minute and there would be one of these for each combat stat (Sacrifice mage, sacrifice ranged, etc). Would probably stick these under prayer augments...

The boost set: We've touched on this, but I wanna get it formalised. The boost set consists of 15 augments (5x3) that boost your skill and the same skill of allied players within your radius by a certain percent for 1 minute. Percentages are 5, 10 or 15, thus there are 3 boosts for each of the 5 combat skill

Others...

Sponge - an item with this augment can absorb up to 5 doses of any potion and release them (giving the exact same effect as the potion itself) when activated. Cannot store more than one type of potion at once. Essentially a low level augment aimed at saving inventory space
Super sponge - a higher levelled version of sponge. Will accept up to 8 doses of any potion

Slayer10090 wrote:To be honest, I have very little to say about what you've written. And thats a good thing, it just means that I agree with it, not that I couldn't be bothered to read it

Prior to you saying that, I would have always assumed silence is positive. However, now I feel like I should be suspicious. All I really wrote in that post was the Sanctuary Augment, the bulk of it was just some of the list you forgot when trawling the thread.

3dit: Ooh, I just noticed that the bit I quoted from myself had more than just the list. XD The magic bits were previous discussion.

I had an idea for 9 active shield augments, that will block 10, 20, and 30 percent of melee, missile or magic damage for a period of 20 seconds when activated. No idea what their names should be though...

Sounds good.

Ideas for another set of augments. These are extremely rare, high powered ones... Once activated, you enter a 5 second state where you cannot attack. After this 5 seconds, 5% of any damage you take in that period is given as a boost to a particular skill (I was thinking of having an augment that would do this for attack, strength, defense, ranged and magic). This effect will fade in 30 seconds. 5 minute recharge time

You could simplify the effect to "The next incoming attack deals no damage and 10% of what was shielded is added to X (max 25% boost)." and it fades like a normal boost?

A third set called the siphon set. These allow you to drain unwanted combat stats back into your health. 10 points are lost per activation, which will heal 100 LP. There will be siphons for attack, strength, defense, magic and ranged, but all of these would probably have to be cross augments. Cooldown of 1 minute

So... activate it and it drains 10 Attack levels for 100 health? Sounds cool. Definitely a generic augment, since each would be desirable for two classes (range and magic might wouldn't feel bad draining attack) and it isn't broken if Attack has it. I'm not sure it really needs that long of a cool down... once you're out of Attack you can't use it any more. Although, players might just combo this effect with attack potions... but I'm not sure how cost effective that is?

Boosts are supported.

Sponge sounds cool.

Haha. I just felt you posted too much for me to seemingly ignore - it would seem rude

I'm glad of the positive feedback, but I'm afraid I'm only willing to meet you half way on the cooldown times for siphon, at 20 seconds to avoid overpowering. I just think it would be a bit too strong to essentially have up to 990 extra LP stored up in a combat skill that could be button spammed to release immediately

You seemed to have accidentally missed my sacrifices set, by the way...

They were essentially appropriately down-graded siphons. My concerns with one were shared, thus your resolutions to one would be shared. I guess I could have said "Same issues as above, but I agree that prayer-related restores should be weaker as usual."

While we're on the subject of prayers... How will augments work with prayers. Take the one that boosts strength by 10% for example. Will that stack with prayer, would it be impossible to activate one while the other is active, or would they simply take the greater of the two boosts?

Either greater of the two, or the two could stack? Or the two could stack prior to being applied, so 10% + 10% = 20% (whereas 10% then another 10% is close a 21% increase).

I don't know. Prayer is only comparable to a few.

I reckon the greater of the two is probably the best option...

Hmm. That would devalue prayer, however the magnitude of this devaluation depends on the rarity of the augments. I believe the augments will be rare enough to get away with that

Possibly. What of potion-boosts, though?

Is stacking two 15%s broken? As either 30% (x1.3) or as 32% (x1.15x1.15)?

Prayers, black masks, salve amulets, void knight set effects etc all work with potion boosts, thus I think augments can too.

Although that raises yet another question, do the augments stack with the other things here? I think yes. I mean, prayer can be used alongside everything else in that list, I believe, so I think you could use that to justify augments too...

As I've said throughout, the best way to retain balance and not seriously devalue other content is to just make it difficult to get hold of augments

At the moment all Magic Damage boosts stack so long as you can equip them (obviously, you can't equip multiple weapons and such). So why not.

Have you had any more ideas for augments by the way?

Sort of.

Blood, Ice, Smoke and Shadow Augments?

Upstart (Rhombus) - Hits everything within a short-ranged cone. For each target hit, Constitution is raised by one level.

Uproar (Trapezium) - Hits everything within a short-ranged cone. For each target hit, Defence is raised by one level.

I don't understand what you mean by a short range cone? And hit by how much? Just a normal attack? And do you mean actually raising your constitution stat, like torva armour, or just restoring LP?

Although I do like the idea of augments that would boost the effects of ancient magics - freeze for twice as long, twice as much LP restored per hit, double attack drain and double strength poison for example? All active effects for the next hit only? Or a constant passive?

Slayer10090 wrote:I don't understand what you mean by a short range cone? And hit by how much? Just a normal attack? And do you mean actually raising your constitution stat, like torva armour, or just restoring LP?

I meant constitution.

It's a normal hit, and a cone is a slice of cake rather than a full circle or one person.

Although I do like the idea of augments that would boost the effects of ancient magics - freeze for twice as long, twice as much LP restored per hit, double attack drain and double strength poison for example? All active effects for the next hit only? Or a constant passive?

Either Active or chance-passive. I more meant general use rather than just ancient magic, although it could stack with the spells. Rare augment drops from Nex, crossed-circle augments.

Great, its just that between Guthan's, poisoned weapons and entangle spells plus the zamorak godsword, 3 out of 4 of those effects have already been done... I mean its fine if you still go ahead with it your way, I just feel you should be aware of this when you decide...

Anyway, more ideas from me.

Finisher, a heavy weapon augment - 2x attack damage for one hit, but causes the player to pause for a time equivalent to making another hit (so for 3 seconds if their weapon hits every 3 seconds). The idea being its used as a KO move, and has no real use if it isn't. Would only require a short recharge of about 20 seconds

Final Smash - finisher's bigger, meaner brother. 3x attack damage for 1 hit, but causes a pause equivalent to 2 hits

Dodge, for light weapons - a percentage chance of your opponent's attack being entirely evaded. Chance is equal to one third of your agility level

Acrobatics - dodge, but better. Here, the chance of evading an attack is equal to half your agility skill.

(Considering putting two more of these in for both of the above and then making them Task reward augments)

Strongfeet - a passive light weapon augment, 50% chance that any binding attack, including ice magics, fails. Given that snares, binds and entangles can fail anyway, this chance is applied after the game calculates a successful cast

Free spirit - a passive generic augment. The user cannot be teleblocked

Brace - any hit that would otherwise kill you will leave you with 1LP left. Passive, but will have a cooldown of 1 minute once external factors activate it

Multishot - The user fires 10 arrows at once, each of which has their damage reduced to 12%. The idea is that you can essentially get 120% damage done, if you're willing to use up an extra 9 arrows for it. 30 second cooldown

Multicast - like multishot, but with magic spells. Will not work with multi hitting ancient magic spells

Tenacity - once activated, any effects which would reduce your stats (either % reductions, or deductions from your skill level) are blocked for 20 seconds. Will NOT work against the mourner in Moruning's End 1, nor will it stop prayer draining through usage. However, it will stop self induced stat losses, such as drinking saradomin brews. 2 minute cooldown

I'll make a more specific reply when I get home, but they sound good.

Perhaps your right, just for magic then.

Also, we've got to remember perks. I was about to suggest an augment which would probably do just as well to be a perk.

Barrage (Ranged XP)( 8 second cool down) - Fires three arrows in a fork. Successful hits slow for 3 seconds. (For shortbows/all bows)

You know, I'm starting to think perks should just be changed to low level augments. It would certainly simplify the system and make it easier to pick up, and it'll save us having to think of 3 perks for every single weapon. if would-be perks become very common augments, I don't see too much being lost...

Perks are a weapons attack styes... They're pretty much the building blocks or this whole interactivity feature, as you can use multiple attacks in fights. There aren't that many to think up... They can repeat at a lot. We already have names for most of them... It's a weapons current styles. They could work as augments, but that creates a lot of variation and would making trading very difficult and i'm not a fan of my weapon having little to nothing.

Now I'm confused a bit. Originally, you were going to replace attack styles with perks and I thought I'd convinced you to have perks AND attack styles. If I'm wrong, then I think I may have fundamentally misunderstood what perks are. Should I simply re-read the first post more carefully?

Existing attack styles will become perks, I'm one for a better name. These are similar to different attacks you get in any game... press O for normal attack, /\ for heavy attack, etc. It's to make standard combat less stale, although you don't have to use it (NPCs should slowly be released with their equivalent of perks, or all at once if Jagex decides to go all out). They can have slight effects, but are generally just alterations of the basic attack (their effects being something that could possibly happen, or relating to the name of the attack).

I added the ability to change the experience-type of an attack at request, but this was an irrelevant change to the above content.

The current attack styles are now called experience-types, whilst the current attack styles name's /(and buttons)(with some variation) are being used by the perk feature.

And what about whether a weapon is using crush, slash or stab? Does that come under its experience type, or its perks?

Everything?

Which stat is uses is based on the weapon, isn't it? Possibly just experience types. If I'm honest, I've never fully paid attention to that side of combat. Whilst I understand it's impacts, since all melee weapons use all three I just stick to using whichever weapon I want.

I'm guessing there are people who get the highest crush they can and use a crush weapon for teh epic crush... but I'm content just to wear half-rune-half-dragon and wield my halberd or whip.

Thing is, a lot of weapons have been built with the ability to switch between these styles in mind. I mean, you've got a whip (and so do I), and all that gives is a slash bonus, and all it can do is slash attacks...

But there are things like spears, which actually have roughly equal stats in crush, slash and stab, and have the ability to switch between them by changing your attack style. A lot of weapons have this to a less extreme scale, and weapon's stats themselves would have to be overhauled if we got rid of it, so you gotta find a way to incorporate it...

Slayer10090 wrote:Thing is, a lot of weapons have been built with the ability to switch between these styles in mind.

That sounds like you're doubting, but you didn't say what exactly you were doubting.

The existing combat-styles are right-click options. You can still switch. Perks use a specific style also. At no point is stab, slash and crush being replaced or not used. Things continue as normal.

Oh, I just say "the thing is" when I'm explaining stuff... I didn't know just how knowledgeable you were, so I went for the basics. And you never actually stated explicitly that they wouldn't be replaced, and since I'm a little bit slow witted in the evenings, I got scared. Lol. But it seems to be sorted, I'm just being a bit too picky...