Make Combat More Interactive

First topic message reminder :

Augments and Interactive Combat

Credit: 3mptylord and Slayer10090
Partial: Dark Avorian and Blaze FF8

For the most part this idea only effects Ranged and Melee combat, and this will be difficult to amend so long as Magic is predominantly weaponless (or rather, without class-specific weapons). Ideas of mine such as Conjuring and Firearms would provide Magic the equipment it requires to truly utilise this idea; but wands and—to some extent—staffs will also allow it.

This update doesn't require that players interact more than they already do. In a nutshell, the entirety of the current Combat Styles panel can be found in the top and bottom line of the revised panel: the weapon name, combat level, attack styles (accessed via right click) and auto-retaliate. The special attack is the only feature to have changed (see on).

All weapons would be given a single "default" attack, likely one it's current combat styles (it's experience type can be changed via right-click). In addition, all weapons would be given the following;
• Between two and three perks (aka "abilities", "alternate attacks" or simply "attacks").
• A circle augment slot.
• Between zero and two specialized augments slots.

A modification to the interface to accommodate shield slots:

Perks have effects, the simplest of which being an instant attack. Each perk has a cool down which takes effect when the weapon is first equip, as well as between attacks. An attack that is in cool down will be coloured red, which will slowly drain to illustrate the time left (this could also feature a number in seconds over the top)(the transition of the drain could either be a top-to-bottom drain, or a countdown/clockstyle). In case you didn't catch that, newly equip weapons won't have any available perks instantly (unless they have no cool-down) - thus, switching weapons will not bypass cool downs.

Augments too have effects, and come in two varieties: active and passive. Active effects come into effect when the icon is clicked (can be both one-off and duration based); whilst passive effects are always in effect whilst the augment is in use. "Active" effects have cool downs just like perks, and just like perks these cool downs will come into effect when the weapon is first equip (an active cool down will not effect any passive effects).

Regarding my comment at the top, the lack of special attack bar is the only part of this suggestion which impacts the current combat system (as all other features are optional). Special attacks will appear as active effects on augments (unless their effects are changed as part of the update, I reckon Excalibur's Sanctuary should have an area-of-effect passive too); removing the special attack bar. Players who use a single weapon will likely find this update beneficial, as they can use attacks more frequently; whilst players who weapon-hop will find this detrimental, as there is no global control for special attacks (and switching weapons will in fact reset any active cool downs).

Augment information:

Description of the image:

An altercation:

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Boosts and Curses

I'm going for the overkill now...

An alternative with 6 affliction slots:

Affliction slots display those effects provided by consumables/allies or inflicted by enemies, rather than passive effects provided by your own equipment (such as augments and prayers).

Whilst I've jokingly used the little warrior icon to display a message, that icon could bring up a full list of personal effects (such as the Slayer Mask, etc.).

...like this!:

These slots only display duration-based effects (anything which lasts for longer than the instant it was used). This will either be indefinite (so long as whatever's causing it is around) or a timer. In practical terms, the only things that aren't displayed here are boosts like Vengeance and Cure Other/Group, which activate instantly, and Blood spells, which have no lasting effect. Something such as Cure Other could have a resulting effect, "Recently Cured", which grants temporary immunity from poison (which I think potions currently do, but I'm not sure about cure spells).

A player cannot be affected by any more than there are slots available - so a player that is poisoned and diseased cannot be further afflicted. You can ignore/remove boosts by right-clicking on them, however, curses cannot be removed without appropriate action (such as an anti-poison potion). In the event that you have no available slots and someone tries to use something, there are instances where your current effects might be temporarily (or permanently) replaced. For example, temporary boosts will take precedence over passive boosts (as you'll get the passive back when it's done). This isn't normally the case for curses, as getting poisoned might be considered a safe-guard to more powerful area-of-effect curses (which wouldn't be fair).

To make things easier, most effects would be given some sort of priority rating. Also, like-effects (such as poison and specific skill boosts) would replace weaker effects. Effects such as those aforementioned generally won't stack, but this would (again) be case-by-case.

Oh, I just say "the thing is" when I'm explaining stuff... I didn't know just how knowledgeable you were, so I went for the basics. And you never actually stated explicitly that they wouldn't be replaced, and since I'm a little bit slow witted in the evenings, I got scared. Lol. But it seems to be sorted, I'm just being a bit too picky...

Could you give me some examples of perks then, so I know what kinda things you're looking for?

The first post, even the picture, has an example of perks?

Air Staff
- Attacks:
- - Default: Assertive, Stab, Attack XP
- - Perk 1: Focus (Defence xp)(40 sec cd) +20% melee damage absorption for 12 seconds.
- - Perk 2: Pound (Crush)(Strength xp)( 8 sec cd) Instant hit. Minimum damage 50.
- - Perk 3: Shunt (Crush)(Strength and Defence xp)(4 sec cd) Pushes enemy and stuns for 1 second.

Sorry for delay, went to do something quickly.

I know, I know. I was hoping for a few more examples...

Soz bout dat. I was updating the previous post.

Would I be correct in saying they are essentially weaker, non changeable augments? If yes I think I'm ready to get some ideas written down...

That's about right. I don't know if the wiki has the current attack styles, but that might be helpful for coming up with effects and you can just use the old names.

Ok... so I'm just getting one or two new ideas out, as well as writing what we discussed yesterday down so we don't forget them

Lunge - Pushes opponent back 1 square. Will hit with 30% extra damage if opponent cannot move backwards
Chop - An instant attack with a small chance of instant damage - can remember if this was 100% right
Block - Next move will be reduced by an amount equal to your defense level
Focus - Boosts your melee damage absorb by 10% for 20 seconds - we never agreed on times and rates, so you could change that
Smash - an instant attack equal to your strength level plus your strength bonus

And a quick idea of my own...
Pummel - This is an attack option for warhammers and maces. Pretty undervalued weapons, so I thought I'd make this a stronger one - User spins round, hitting a single target for an extra 20% damage in a single combat zone, or hitting up to 3 targets for normal damage in a multicombat zone. Requires 9 squares of free space to perform, Ie there must be no obsticles within it's attack radius.

Chop - An instant attack with a small chance of instant damage - can remember if this was 100% right

I don't remember to be honest, but I have no idea what you mean by "instant damage" that's different from an instant attack.

Pummel - This is an attack option for warhammers and maces. Pretty undervalued weapons, so I thought I'd make this a stronger one - User spins round, hitting a single target for an extra 20% damage in a single combat zone, or hitting up to 3 targets for normal damage in a multicombat zone. Requires 9 squares of free space to perform, Ie there must be no obsticles within it's attack radius.

I'm not a fan of the space requirement. Does it really matter if it would hit a wall? Similar to the Golden Hammer, maybe? Perhaps it hits the personal target twice (once at the beginning and once at the end), and in multi-combat ALL surrounding targets?

Were I said "instant" damage, I meant increased damage. Sorry, thats my fault for not paying proper attention as I type

The idea of the space requirement is so you have to think about where you stand when you do it. You seemed to like the strategic positioning element created by the lunge attack, so here I was trying to do something like it - the idea again being that a smart player can predict and counter the effects of the move by changing their position on the battlefield

As for your ideas for extra power, I'm gonna have to disagree, I'm afraid. While I'd be open to making them a bit stronger, what you suggest makes this move stronger than most special attacks currently in the game, and even ancient magics can't target ALL targets in their damage radius - they're limited to 9. Remember this is just a perk, its not meant to be amazingly strong...

Had another idea for a perk by the way. Not 100% sure where to place it though...

An attack that randomly removes a piece of the opponents armour and places it in the inventory. Will have no effect if the opponent's inventory is full

It's not really that amazing of extra power. How about the damage gets less with each subsequent hit? So in single player it's two hits... so 100% and 80% (bearing in mind it's 80% of what you would hit, not what you did hit the first time). So if you hit 5 people on the way around, 80% 60% 40% 20% 10%, all other people you hit at 5%... including the first guy?

M'yeah, over complicating things.

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Not sure that's entirely useful.

Players will likely just reequip before the next attack. Also, has not much use on NPCs.

How can you say that's not amazing extra power???? In single way combat it's virtually as strong as a dragon dagger special - that's a special that's pretty much the sole reason people buy dragon daggers. And in multiway combat, its actually even more powerful than the special on Korasi's sword... And you wanna stick that on every mace and warhammer, right down to bronze?

As I said before, I'm open to the idea of increasing the power from what I originally suggested, but what you suggest is just too strong. You said earlier on in the discussion that special attacks would remain stronger than augments, in order to prevent them becoming burdens. You then said perks are weaker than augments. So how does it then logically follow that a perk can be stronger than a special attack, like you suggest for this one...

But anyway, the other perk. In a way, I'm glad you think it isn't useful... I'm trying to make perks that are only useful in certain situations - if you're smart. Again, it requires you to think - what if you're fighting someone using a set effect? Then you have a way to counter that set effect... What if your opponent is only using one piece of armour, or even only a weapon? Best still, what if they're not paying attention? Bear in mind that the hit you perform will technically be done after the armour is removed, so you could also get a hit in with the armour out of the way...
Then again, if they are, its so easy to counter... Don't rely on set effects, keep a full inventory, or just train your reactions to re-equip as quickly as possible...
Still, you're right. Little use on NPCs... Like I say, only useful in certain situations

"How can you say that's not amazing extra power"... I only meant that it's not that much more powerful than what you already suggested. By I retract that.

Okay, I'll grant you set effects (although none of them have passive abilities that are broken by not wearing them) but the whole "not paying attention" will only be useful for like the first week after this update is released... very few people will not pay attention when combat becomes interactive, even they would now because they don't have to.

If it disabled the slot for a minimum length of time I see it being more useful, but then it potentially becomes too powerful.

I'm not sure PVP and PVE should be treated as "certain situations"...

Pen and paper are out, I'm currently fixing this.:

I might have a solution... just creating the interface.

Sorry, GIMP is much harder than Photoshop.

Thumbs up (Y)

Crap, forgot experience type.

Also, I really don't like the top line.

Hmm. Personally, I think you've done a great job with what space you have...

If you don't like the top line... Remove the little guy with the shield? Surely he's just getting in the way?

I suppose his feature is unnecessary, but even without him it looks messy. My perfectionism is going to eat away at me, but ah well.

Haha, it did.

(I didn't mean to switch the side of the Shield and Affects section for each... only the bottom-right was suppose to be reversed. But that won't bug me enough, and it could work either way around. )
(Some of them won't look so good in the event of no special attack. I think the top-right is the best for that.)

Anyway, special attacks can be both augment-like or perk-like, but it must be an active effect. Ditto with perks, all are active effects. Augments can be bother active and passive. A special attack does not have to be stronger than augments. There are still bound augments, which cannot be removed from the weapon - such as the Wolfbane's and Silverlight's effect.

Some weapons that currently have special attacks could be made into a bound augments, should their effect merit it - for example, Excalibur's Santuary could be either a special attack or a bound augment (should my proposed passive effect be liked), or, the weapon could come with an additional augment. And augment would actually make sense for this weapon, as the weapon can be upgraded.

god, that looks so complicated... O_O

EDIT: however, nice work rendering that design

Dragon78114 wrote:god, that looks so complicated... O_O

EDIT: however, nice work rendering that design

Agreed. I may have just thought of something to simplify it.

I'm not actually sure if this made it any easier.

I think that makes it a lot easier actually. You've got related things in the same line. It makes it all look less muddled. Even better than the last

Yay.